Debate: How can we find forgiveness from a Holy God? Shabir Ally vs. Thabiti Anyabwile

http://www.bible-quran.com/forgiveness-god-shabir-ally-anyabwile/

http://www.livestream.com/mcdialogues/video?clipId=pla_347eeca0-0190-4bcc-8f31-d75ffe85608d&utm_source=lslibrary&utm_medium=ui-thumb

There are some problems with the audio at some points.

I hope to make more comments on this debate in the future as time allows, but for now I remember one point that James White already refuted Shabir Ally on a long time ago.

At one point in the debate, Shabir Ally says that Luke 22:19-20 is not authentic. (either by the textual variant or by Shabir’s typical method of adopting liberal redaction criticism, which comes from a worldview that God cannot guide the writers of the NT by the Holy Spirit to write what they wrote.  But this is contradictory to Islamic thinking.)  He made this charge before in one of his debates with James White.  Dr. White answered this charge long ago. 

Thabiti asked Shabir why he didn’t realize that Mark and Matthew have that text, and even Shabir agrees that Mark was written before Luke, so Shabir’s argument makes no reasonable sense.

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About Ken Temple

I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I am a sinner who has been saved by the grace of God alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), through faith alone (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:28; 4:1-16), in Christ alone (John 14:6). But a true faith does not stay alone, it should result in change, fruit, good works, and deeper levels of repentance and hatred of my own sins of selfishness and pride. I am not better than you! I still make mistakes and sin, but the Lord is working on me, conforming me to His character. (Romans 8:28-29; 2 Corinthians 3:16-18) When I do sin, I hate the sin as it is an affront to God, and seek His forgiveness in repentance. (Mark 1:15; 2 Corinthians 7:7-10; Colossians 3:5-16 ) Praise God for His love for sinners (Romans 5:8), shown by the voluntary coming of Christ and His freely laying down His life for us (John 10:18), becoming flesh/human (John 1:1-5; 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8), dying for sins of people from all nations, tribes, and cultures (Revelation 5:9), on the cross, in history, rising from the dead (Romans 10:9-10; Matthew 28, Mark 16:1-8; Luke 24; John 20-21; 1 Corinthians chapter 15). His resurrection from the dead proved that Jesus is the Messiah, the eternal Son of God, the word of God from eternity past; and that He was all the gospels say He was and that He is truth and the life and the way to salvation. (John 14:6)
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One Response to Debate: How can we find forgiveness from a Holy God? Shabir Ally vs. Thabiti Anyabwile

  1. θ says:

    Progressive recompense of sin.

    Allah is forgiving but the defiled world is not.
    A person’s persistent denial of sins till the death is the ultimate precondition of atonement.

    Forgiveness is free, nevertheless the impact of defilement by sins keeps trailing behind the repentants, and would always be such “a spiritual threat” along a man’s life, hence the wrath of sin could return quickly, even gets doubled, whenever a man returns to sin again.

    The scriptural Torah’s animal sacrifice acts as “a delayer” of the return of the wrath whenever a repentant happens to sin again. After the end of the 1st Temple, Jehovah gives a dispensation of free forgiveness thru prayers and repentance, but as the consequence Jehovah would render a double punishment if the sinners return to the sin again.
    The the wrath of sin could return quickly, even doubled, for a person who just did a free repentance.

    Jn 5:14
    Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

    Lk 11:26
    Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

    After the end of the 1st Temple, Jehovah gives a dispensation of free forgiveness thru prayers and repentance, but as the consequence Jehovah would render a double punishment on the sinners who return to the sin again.
    Jer 16:18
    And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.

    Jehovah counted the sin double and promised a double punishment for the returning Jews who committed the past sins again.
    Jer 16
    15 But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.16 Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.17 For mine eyes are upon all their ways: they are not hid from my face, neither is their iniquity hid from mine eyes.18 And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.

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