Response to Shabir Ally and Paul Bilal Williams on the incarnation and atonement

Paul Bilal Williams has a video up of Shabir Ally questioning the doctrine of the incarnation and atonement and the Christian/ Biblical teaching that Christ, as the sinless Son of God, could die for our sins and forgive us.  [Paul Williams has apparently banned me totally from commenting.  It seems he cannot deal with my answers; he has never dealt with Mark 10:23-27 and since he cannot deal with it, he seems afraid to deal with me anymore.]

Shabir and Paul B. Williams question that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit can do such a thing as condemn sinners because of His holiness and condemn sinners because of His justice, and also questions whether God can justify the ungodly and the result of this Muslim polemic is trying to say that since the Divine nature cannot die, then Jesus didn’t really pay for sins.  (Misunderstanding the hypostatic union of the Divine nature with the human nature.)

“God died for our sins?” – Shabir Ally answers  (watch the video and see the first 5 comments to understand all my answers and argumentation)

http://bloggingtheology.wordpress.com/2013/09/24/god-died-for-our-sins-dr-shabir-ally-answers/

Shabir quotes from the Qur’an, (Surah 21:23), but didn’t give the reference.

Sahih International

“He is not questioned about what He does, but they will be questioned.” Surah Anbiyah (The Prophets) 21:23

Interesting that Shabir quoted this verse with reference to Allah just forgiving sinners without a payment.  Islam says that God just says “I forgive” you, you are free – but without justice or punishment of the sin. This is a denigration of the holiness of God.  

In the comment boxes, another Muslim (apparently, who goes by “log in your eye”) brings Proverbs 17:15, Deut. 24:16 to try and say that these are contradictory to the teachings that God justifies the ungodly (Romans 4:5) and that God the Father would not allow the innocent Jesus to be punished.  (condemnation of the innocent)

But that principle of Surah 21:23 can be turned around just as easily.  “Who are you, O man, who questions God?”  (Romans 9:20) God can forgive and provide the payment Himself if He wants to and remain just and holy and not violate Proverbs 17:15 nor the other verses.  He does that in the incarnation.  See Hebrews 2:17

17 “Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.” (Hebrews 2:17)

It was necessary for the eternal Son to become a human, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest (Muslims long in their hearts for a mediator – only Jesus as the sinless eternal Son of God is the mediator that can fulfill their longings.)   “in things pertaining to God” – in things pertaining to God’s justice, holiness, and love.  Only Jesus meets all the requirements of satisifying justice and love.  Only Jesus is the propitiation (the satisfaction of justice; the absorbing of the wrath of God against sin).  (see also Romans 3:25-26; Luke 18:9-14; 1 John 2:2; Revelation 5:9)

Proverbs 17:15 and Deut. 24:16 and Ezekiel 18 (it is actually Ezekiel 18:4, not verse 1, as Shabir said)  are to be applied to human sinners – in a court of human law.

In answer to Proverbs 17:15 –
if a human sinner(like a human judge) justifies the ungodly, that is an abomination,  but it is not an abomination if God, since He is perfect and without sin, justifies sinners – as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit did in the work of redemption.

And if a human sinner condemns the innocent, that is an abomination; but the Father never condemned the innocent Christ, rather Christ willingly out of love, voluntarily took on the condemnation due to us – He took our place.  So God never violated Proverbs 17:15.

God the Father sends the Son; The Son becomes human and remains God at the same time (incarnation) and dies for the sins of sinners out from all nations (Revelation 5:9), and only those who will repent and believe in Christ in all history will get the benefits of the atonement – Romans 5:17 – “to those who receive the abundance of grace” – see also John 1:12 – those who receive Christ; – receiving Him means accepting all that He is, and repenting of sin and realizing there is no hope apart from Christ.  One must realize one is a sinner and repent, and turn to Christ as the only hope for salvation from sin.  Jesus said, “Repent and Believe in the gospel” (Mark 1:15)

The Holy Spirt changes those who truly repent and beleive, so the criminals are changed on the inside and given a new heart that is holy and good – Romans 6:6; Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:1-21, Acts 15:9, etc.  The criminals must repent and get a new heart.

So, if God wants to become man – you are not to question that – Surah 21:23

If God wants to justify the ungodly (Romans 4:5), He can and remain just and not violate Proverbs 17:15 because He is not a sinner and He is holy; and He is God. God has the power and authority to make atonement Himself and forgive and remain holy, and not violate any of those verses.

Jesus is sinless and pure, and came to be the ransom for many. (Mark 10:45)

“The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve (allusion to being the suffering servant of Isaiah 52:13-15 and 53:1-12), and to give His life a ransom for many.”  Mark 10:45

Remember this is fulfillment of Isaiah 53, as Jesus alludes to Himself being the suffering servant, and a fullfillment of Genesis 22, by the being the lamb sacrifice that God will provide.  (Abraham said, “God will provide the lamb for Himself” – Genesis 22:8)  And the word “ransom” in Mark 10:45, when translated into Arabic and Farsi, is the same root word as used in the Qur’an 37:107 – “We have ransomed him with a mighty sacrifice” – which in context, is the story of when Allah tells Abraham to sacrifice his son.  See also here, “So Why did Allah substitute a ram (or sheep or lamb) in place of Abraham’s son?”

and also see here, “A Muslim distorts the parable of the Unmerciful servant of Matthew 18”

The Son voluntarily became the sacrifice – John 10:18

“No one has authority to take My life from Me,  I laid it down voluntarily on My own initiative; I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again.”

The Divine nature of the Son did not die, but the God-man (the 2 natures combined without confusing them nor becoming diluted in their qualities) did die and since He was sinless and Divine, His power provided the eternal atonment, and since He was human and sinless, He fulfilled all the requirements of justice and fulfilled all the foreshadowing and prophesies of the sacrificial system in the OT.  (Genesis 22, Exodus 12, Leviticus 1-7, 16-17, Isaiah 52:13-15 and Isaiah 53:1-12; Romans 8:3-4)

If God wants to provide atonement Himself by becoming flesh (John 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8), who are you, O Muslim to question that?

“He is not questioned about what He does, but they will be questioned.” Surah Anbiyah (The Prophets) 21:23

If Jesus wants to voluntarily become the atonement, (John 10:18; Mark 10:45), who are you O Muslim, to question that?

If God wants to preserve His justice and holiness by providing the ransom Himself, who are you, O Muslim human to question that ?

If God wants to fullfill the OT sacrificial system by becoming the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29; Revelation 5:9 – some from every nation are redeemed), who are you, O Muslim, O human, to question that?

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About Ken Temple

I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I am a sinner who has been saved by the grace of God alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), through faith alone (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:28; 4:1-16), in Christ alone (John 14:6). But a true faith does not stay alone, it should result in change, fruit, good works, and deeper levels of repentance and hatred of my own sins of selfishness and pride. I am not better than you! I still make mistakes and sin, but the Lord is working on me, conforming me to His character. (Romans 8:28-29; 2 Corinthians 3:16-18) When I do sin, I hate the sin as it is an affront to God, and seek His forgiveness in repentance. (Mark 1:15; 2 Corinthians 7:7-10; Colossians 3:5-16 ) Praise God for His love for sinners (Romans 5:8), shown by the voluntary coming of Christ and His freely laying down His life for us (John 10:18), becoming flesh/human (John 1:1-5; 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8), dying for sins of people from all nations, tribes, and cultures (Revelation 5:9), on the cross, in history, rising from the dead (Romans 10:9-10; Matthew 28, Mark 16:1-8; Luke 24; John 20-21; 1 Corinthians chapter 15). His resurrection from the dead proved that Jesus is the Messiah, the eternal Son of God, the word of God from eternity past; and that He was all the gospels say He was and that He is truth and the life and the way to salvation. (John 14:6)
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2 Responses to Response to Shabir Ally and Paul Bilal Williams on the incarnation and atonement

  1. Nadeem says:

    Great. It is slap on satanic motions.

  2. Nadeem says:

    Great. It is slap on satanic notions.

Comments are closed.