Taking their theology and practice seriously, consistently, and doctrinally, into practice

What consistent and doctrinal Islam pushes some Muslims to do:

http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php/2014/10/24/theology-matters-graphic-example/

“Combine a wrathful God, a strict law, capricious forgiveness, no emphasis upon justice and equity and the fulfillment of God’s law as reflected in His nature, with the fatal exclusion of a Mediator who can show us God’s mercy and love and grace in perfection, and here is the result. Few things prove the truth of this more clearly: THEOLOGY MATTERS.”  Dr. James White

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About Ken Temple

I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I am a sinner who has been saved by the grace of God alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), through faith alone (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:28; 4:1-16), in Christ alone (John 14:6). But a true faith does not stay alone, it should result in change, fruit, good works, and deeper levels of repentance and hatred of my own sins of selfishness and pride. I am not better than you! I still make mistakes and sin, but the Lord is working on me, conforming me to His character. (Romans 8:28-29; 2 Corinthians 3:16-18) When I do sin, I hate the sin as it is an affront to God, and seek His forgiveness in repentance. (Mark 1:15; 2 Corinthians 7:7-10; Colossians 3:5-16 ) Praise God for His love for sinners (Romans 5:8), shown by the voluntary coming of Christ and His freely laying down His life for us (John 10:18), becoming flesh/human (John 1:1-5; 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8), dying for sins of people from all nations, tribes, and cultures (Revelation 5:9), on the cross, in history, rising from the dead (Romans 10:9-10; Matthew 28, Mark 16:1-8; Luke 24; John 20-21; 1 Corinthians chapter 15). His resurrection from the dead proved that Jesus is the Messiah, the eternal Son of God, the word of God from eternity past; and that He was all the gospels say He was and that He is truth and the life and the way to salvation. (John 14:6)
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28 Responses to Taking their theology and practice seriously, consistently, and doctrinally, into practice

  1. θ says:

    Why do not Right Wing Christians congratulate themselves whenever their minorities were slain in a cowardice?
    It is ironically Political Correctness if Right Wing Christians refuse to blame themselves and their non-violence theology – beside they can’t blame the Leftists either – when it comes to the suffering of their minorities.

  2. Ken Temple says:

    This has nothing to do with congratulating oneself or whatever you are trying to say about minorities. The person claimed he was doing the violence in the name of Islam, as do other Muslim terrorists. Not all Muslims are terrorists and I feel for the majority who are peaceful and embarrassed by the radical Jihadists. Granted, they may all be criminals and/ or mentally and emotionally disturbed or insane, but 2 % or 10% of over one billion people is still a lot of people and they are causing lots of trouble in this world. They are using real texts from the Islamic sources to justify their actions.

    Ultimately politics and military power are not the right solutions. The only real solution is repentance and faith in the Messiah, Jesus, the Son of God, God in the flesh, who was born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate and the Jewish leadership, was crucified, and died on the cross and was buried and rose from the dead on the third day. He ascended to heaven and intercedes for those who repent of their sinfulness and realize they need a savior from sin and call upon Him in faith. Mark 1:15 – “repent and believe the gospel” Luke 13:1-5 – repent

    “Combine a wrathful God, a strict law, capricious forgiveness, no emphasis upon justice and equity and the fulfillment of God’s law as reflected in His nature [ ie, denying the wrath of God and justice of God that Jesus took for us on the cross – the atonement], with the fatal exclusion of a Mediator who can show us God’s mercy and love and grace in perfection, and here is the result. Few things prove the truth of this more clearly: THEOLOGY MATTERS.” Dr. James White (with my commentary)

    Since Islam denies the atonement of the cross, there is no real justice/wrath of God against sin and no relief from real guilt in the Muslim human soul for their own sins. The lack of peace and forgiveness and lack of love and lack of assurance of that love and salvation, and a teaching that one can get to heaven (paradise) by dying in Jihad, causes and drives guilty souls to do violence acts.

    Romans 8:28-39

    1 Timothy 2:5

    Romans 5:1

    John 14:27

    Matthew 11:28-30

  3. θ says:

    Trend of demography showed that in 2070 Islam will outnumber Christianity in the number of adherents. Pacifism is just a deceptive illusion that attracts people to be a weak generation with a suicidal mentality that chases a more permissive society. Too much love shall make humans go extinct.

  4. Ken Temple says:

    Interesting comments indeed ! It depends on your definition of pacifism. Pacifism means no self-defense or just war principle at all. I don’t agree with that either. Romans 13:1-8 lays down the basis for police and the just war principle.

    C. S. Lewis’ essay, “Why I am not a pacifist” in “The Weight of Glory and other Essays” is a good defense of the Just War Theory.

    On the demographics issue – The bigger problem for the west (especially Europe) is the rank secularism, materialism, atheism, comfort, affluence and Darwinian philosophy that has destroyed the ideals of marriage and having children.

  5. θ says:

    “Ken Temple says: On the demographics issue – The bigger problem for the west (especially Europe) is the rank secularism, materialism, atheism, comfort, affluence and Darwinian philosophy that has destroyed the ideals of marriage and having children.”

    Your Right-Wing culture war with the Leftists would just fasten the alliance between Moslems and the Leftists. In a two-system politics as in the West the Leftists are forced to seek other ally, that is us Moslems. Fortunately Moslems in the West can’t be easily painted as external enemy because there’s no force of combats.
    On other hand, if the Right-Wing camp united with the Leftism, the politics of two-system would suddenly cease.
    It is more easy for Moslems to support the Leftists to win a quantity battle of election because on the ideological ground the Right-Wing never wants to be dictated by either Leftist camp or Moslems.

  6. θ says:

    Hudud means in practical level the societal covenant. Hudud is a covenant between society and Allah. Once upon a time Allah took covenant with Jews, and then they broke it. Then Allah took covenant with Christians and then they broke it.

    When a decent Muslim asks Jews even their Rabbis, Is Moses Law still applicable? they answer quickly that it’s just applicable once in the past, at certain time and place. Then, when asked again, Why do Jews still circumcise a Jewish baby or take a rest on Sabbath? They just stand silent.

    Even Jesus on Jewish circumcision says so plainly “Scripture can’t be broken,” hence there’s no such a past for Scripture. Paul too circumcised a half-Jew Timothy.

    When a decent Muslim asks Christians even their Evangelists, Is Gospel Law of rendering to the Caesars still applicable? they answer quickly that it’s still in effect. Then when asked again, Why do they still reject to render our Shari’ah Law to us Muslims? They just stand silent.

  7. Ken Temple says:

    حد و حدود
    Hadd and Hudud means limit and limits.

    Which Shar’iah ?
    the Iranian Shiite Sharia ?
    the Iraqi Shiite Sharia?
    The Saudi Sunni Sharia?
    The Taliban Sunni Sharia?
    Boko Haram Sunni Sharia?
    Isis Sunni Sharia?
    Al Qaeda Sunni Sharia?

    Sha’fi?, Malaki?, Hanbali? or Hanifa Sharia ?

    The Ottoman era Sharia ?

    • θ says:

      It depends on which “Caesar” Christians have to render to. Who makes the concept “Law of the lands” or “rendering to Caesars”?

  8. Ken Temple says:

    Mark 7:20-23

    20 And He ( Jesus ) said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. 21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

    • θ says:

      How does the topic of foods eaten by Caesars or his characters have something to do with a Gospel’s duty to render to Caesar, or the Law of the lands?
      Regardless of what defilement may come from the mouth and heart, when will Christians render our Sharia Law to us Moslems?

      • Ken Temple says:

        You don’t deserve any, (we don’t have to pay Jiziye or be Dhimmis, as that is inherently wrong, as it persecutes freedom of religion and evangelism.) because Sharia is unjust because it has Jiziye and Dhimmi -ism in it. Surah 9:29 and all and all the conquerings of Islam was unjust. (Byzantine, Persia, Spain, etc.) They are unjust and slowly destroyed all the churches and Christian communities of N. Africa and Middle East. The little groups left are shells of the ancient churches and communities.

        But Saudia Arabia, Iran, Taliban areas in Afghanistan already implement their Sharias in their areas, along with other terrorist groups in their own areas.

        The Muslim world does not seem to know how to manage or police itself.

  9. θ says:

    “Ken Temple says: No; you avoiding answering the question about all the different Sharias with asking about Caesars, etc.answer the question.”

    Different Shari’ah is still Shari’ah. We aren’t a typical monolithic society. There are pluralities in Shari’ah because Allah has not yet willed to make one world order.

    Now, your turn, when will Christians render our Shari’ah Law to us Moslems?

  10. θ says:

    “Ken Temple says: The Muslim world does not seem to know how to manage or police itself.”

    Yes, we have many Caesars. But Where does Jesus ever criticise Caesar? Never. What we expected of Christians is, just render what belongs to us, that is our Shari’ah Law. Is it too difficult?

    • Ken Temple says:

      From what I understand about Islam, you cannot demand Christians or Hindus or Buddhists or secularists to do anything outside of the Islamic lands. (whatever that is nowadays – since abolition of Caliphate, (1924 by Ataturk) Sunni Islam been in upheaval. But before that even, Muslims killing each other goes back to Sunni-Shiite split, Ali, Umar, Uthman, Hossein, etc.

      What do you mean “render our Sharia” ? In our (non-Muslim countries) areas? or in your own areas – Muslim countries?

  11. θ says:

    “Ken Temple says: From what I understand about Islam, you cannot demand Christians or Hindus or Buddhists or secularists to do anything outside of the Islamic lands. (whatever that is nowadays – since abolition of Caliphate, (1924 by Ataturk) Sunni Islam been in upheaval. But before that even, Muslims killing each other goes back to Sunni-Shiite split, Ali, Umar, Uthman, Hossein, etc.What do you mean “render our Sharia” ? In our (non-Muslim countries) areas? or in your own areas – Muslim countries?”

    You took much importance of the leaders after Prophet Muhammad instead of four Madhabs. In fact political rulers left almost zero legacy apart from Qur’an codification by Uthman and the return of Jerusalem to Arabs by Omar (remember that Herod was Arab from his mother side). They add almost nothing to our Shari’ah which is expanded by four Madhabs.
    Shari’ah is gradual.
    Shari’ah in the Non-Moslem countries is used to promote a foreign relationship mutually with other Moslem states world-widely. In the Non-Moslem countries usually Moslems don’t demand much political concession yet, but Moslems would participate in politics nevertheless. It is impractical for minority to lead majority.

  12. Ken Temple says:

    You took much importance of the leaders after Prophet Muhammad instead of four Madhabs.

    Are they not the “Rightly Guided Caliphs” ??

    Herod was an Edomite, and at least some of the Edomites had converted to Judaism in Herod’s day. God’s kingdom and people is not based on race. The Edomites were later absorbed into the Nabateans (Northern Arabians, descendants of Ishmael) and then later with the coming of Islam, the Arabs, but in the NT days, the Arabs of southern Arabia (Yemen, called Sheba in the OT – the original Arabs), were different than Northern Arabs, the descendants of Ishmael and other tribes there – they took wives from among the Edomites, yes.

    The Arab conquests of all of the Levant and N. Africa (636 AD into 900s AD) absorbed many nations into the “Arabization” – they speak forms of Arabic, but they are not pure Arabs, as the original Arabs from Yemen (Sheba). The Maghrabi / Darija Arabic of Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, and Lybia (Mixed with Berber and other original North Africans) is very different from the Gulf Arabic, which is different than Levant Arabic, etc. Most Arabic speakers admit that there are 5 major kinds / dialects of Arabic today. Egypt is another one, and Iraq is also unique.

    Anyway, it seems anachronistic to apply Herod’s Edomite ethnicity to the Arabs who came 600 years later and conquered those areas.

    I never heard that before – that you think the Arab Muslims conquering Jerusalem by Omar as somehow, “returning Jerusalem to the Arabs”. Herod was a client/puppet king put there by the Romans. He rejected Jesus the Messiah. He was not a righteous person at all. Very evil. That contradicts Islam. Anyway, these things should not be based on race. The Jews were the ones who rightly had Jerusalem for many centuries – from Joshua’s time to David and Solomon to 70 AD. (with the exile to Babylon from 606 to 536 BC as God’s judgement on apostate Judah, etc. ) They returned after 70 years (Ezra, Nehemiah, Daniel) and then the Persians, Greeks and Romans subjugated the Jews, they were there for centuries.

  13. θ says:

    “Ken Temple says: I never heard that before – that you think the Arab Muslims conquering Jerusalem by Omar as somehow, “returning Jerusalem to the Arabs”. ”

    As I said earlier, Herod was Arab from his mother side. Herodian dynasty was Arabian in race, hence Jerusalem city once belonged to Arabs, before and after the time of Christ.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipater_the_Idumaean
    Antipater married Cypros, a Nabataean noblewoman, which helped endear the Nabateans to him.[9] Their marriage helped bring about a close friendship between him and the King of the Arabia, Aretas, to whom Cypros was a related.

  14. Ken Temple says:

    but Herod was a puppet king put there by the Romans. Not really a legitimate king of the Jews or King of Israel. (As far as Biblically legitimate is understood. the time was Roman occupation and control of Jerusalem, and surrounding area.)

    No such thing as “returning Jerusalem to the Arabs” – they were not there until Omar took over. (636/ 638 Ad) Instead it was the first time; and they conquered unjustly by aggressive warfare.

    the Jebusites who ruled Salem, which later became Jerusalem, before the Jews conquered the land through Joshua, were not Arabs or Arabic.

    • θ says:

      “Ken Temple says: but Herod was a puppet king put there by the Romans. Not really a legitimate king of the Jews or King of Israel. ”

      Herod became a legitimate king of Jews because he legally married Mariamne I of Hasmonean dynasty, hence Herod took the role as a sole ruler of Judea, giving the title of basileus (king) for himself, ushering in the Herodian Dynasty (Arab-Idumean monarchy), and notably ending the Jewish Hasmonean dynasty by causing the death of Mariamne I his own Jewish wife Josephus reports this as being in the year of the consulship of Agrippa and Gallus (37 BCE).

      • Ken Temple says:

        racial heritage means nothing in the kingdom of God.

        God is redeeming some from all the nations through the true gospel of Christ, by the shed blood (the death) of Christ on the cross in an effective and powerful atonement, confirmed by the resurrection from the dead.

        Rev. 5:9
        And they sang a new song, saying,

        “Worthy are you [ Lamb of God – see verses 5-6 – the Lamb who was slain before the throne] to take the scroll
        and to open its seals,
        for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
        from every tribe and language and people and nation,

        Since this message is true, and the final message for mankind, and no more revelation after the NT was finished, therefore, by logic, Islam is false.

  15. Ken Temple says:

    The Biblical Philistines also were not Arabs either.
    The first time Arabs came was 636-638 AD – under Omar’s unjust wars of conquering.

    • θ says:

      “Ken Temple says: The first time Arabs came was 636-638 AD – under Omar’s unjust wars of conquering.”

      Jerusalem had once belonged to the Arabs since the time of Antipater who appoints his Arab-Idumean son Phasael as Governor of Jerusalem alongside his younger brother Herod as Governor of Galilee.
      Josephus in his Antiquities.18:5 speaks of Phasael as a brave and noble man. Herod honored his brother’ name by naming a tower of his palace at Jerusalem “Phasaelus”

      Herod became a legitimate king of Jews because he legally married Mariamne I of Hasmonean dynasty, hence Herod took the role as a sole ruler of Judea, giving the title of basileus (king) for himself, ushering in the Herodian Dynasty (Arab-Idumean monarchy), and notably ending the Jewish Hasmonean dynasty by causing the death of Mariamne I his own Jewish wife Josephus reports this as being in the year of the consulship of Agrippa and Gallus (37 BCE).

      Hence, Phasael was Arab-Idumean Governor of Jerusalem, and Herod was the first Arab-Idumean king who ruled over Judea and Jerusalem.

      • Ken Temple says:

        Why do you just keep repeating the same thing?
        Your take on this is weird. Herod was king of the Jews, put there as a puppet ruler by the Romans. His racial heritage means nothing.

  16. θ says:

    “Ken Temple says: Why do you just keep repeating the same thing? Your take on this is weird. Herod was king of the Jews, put there as a puppet ruler by the Romans. His racial heritage means nothing.”

    No, still if you saw it from Roman geopolitical consideration the Herodian Dinasty was not truly a puppet kingdom of the Romans, because Herod was appointed by “illegitimate” Senate of the defunct Roman Republic that the Triumvirate generals (Octavius, Mark Antony, Marcus Lepidus) divided among themselves under three military dictatorship after the battle of Philippi where they defeated Brutus and Longinus.
    On other hand, from the Hasmonean perspective the Herodian Dynasty is a continuation as well as new form of the independent Judean kingdom due to marriage between Arab-Idumean Herod and Jewish Mariamne I.

  17. θ says:

    “Ken Temple says: racial heritage means nothing in the kingdom of God.”

    So Jesus is wrong when promising the “end of Gentiles times”, eh?
    You just misjudge the racial distinction in accordance to a typical Reformed/Catholic belief of the Replacement Theology.
    Lk 21:24
    Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
    Rom 11:25
    For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

    In the time of the Second Coming of Christ, the believing Jews would be resurrected firstly accordingly to twelve tribes of the children of Israel prior to the resurrection of great multitude of the believing Gentiles.
    Mt 19:28
    And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
    Rev 7
    4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

  18. θ says:

    There shall be two occurrences of resurrection.
    (i) 12 tribes of the children of Israel.
    (ii) Gentiles.
    Rev 7
    4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

  19. Ken Temple says:

    We don’t call it “replacement theology” (that is what Dispensationalists call it; but it is usually used as a pejorative against the idea) (like Wahabis don’t like that term, they prefer Salafi) , but rather expansion theology – the Kingdom of God in the New Covenant is extending into all the nations. (beyond the OT Israel)

    the quotes you gave from Luke 21:24 and Romans 11:25 (“until the full number of the nations (Gentiles) comes in”) are correct in the sense of timing now; there is a partial hardening right now in the hearts of SOME (most modern Jewish people) the Jews while the gospel is going out to all the nations.

    That is a matter of time, not about levels of acceptance in the kingdom. The Jews and the Gentiles (all the other nations) are equal in God’s Kingdom and are “one new man” in Christ, the body, the church. (Ephesians 2:11-22; Gal. 3:28; Rev. 5:9 and 7:9)

    The Revelation 7 passage about the 144,000 seems to be a round number from each tribe, symbolic of those Jews that will be saved; some dispensationalists think they are going to the evangelists that witness to all the nations. Doesn’t mean that there is a hierarchy; the passage does not say that; it just says that a round number from each Jewish tribe is saved out of the whole, and some from all nations are also saved as a whole.

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