One of Paul Bilal Williams’ favorite conservative Christian scholars proves him wrong

I wrote this back on August 21, 2012, at another blog that I also write for:

Paul B. Williams’ favorite Christian scholar seems to be James D. G. Dunn, but he also likes to use Richard Bauckham on some issues, but on the issue of Mark 10:17-18, Williams cannot use Bauckham, for Bauckham clearly refutes Williams’ take on Mark 10 when Jesus says, “Why do you call Me good?  Only God is good.”  Bauckham called this a “wonderful double entendre” and shows how Jesus is indirectly claiming to be God.  Jesus is saying, “If you recognize Me as good; and only God is truly good; then you should realize that I am God, for only God is good.”

http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2012/08/muslims-favorite-conservative-scholar.html

See also:  “No Muslim can deal with Mark 10:23-27

https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2013/09/02/no-muslim-can-deal-with-mark-1023-27/

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About Ken Temple

I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I am a sinner who has been saved by the grace of God alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), through faith alone (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:28; 4:1-16), in Christ alone (John 14:6). But a true faith does not stay alone, it should result in change, fruit, good works, and deeper levels of repentance and hatred of my own sins of selfishness and pride. I am not better than you! I still make mistakes and sin, but the Lord is working on me, conforming me to His character. (Romans 8:28-29; 2 Corinthians 3:16-18) When I do sin, I hate the sin as it is an affront to God, and seek His forgiveness in repentance. (Mark 1:15; 2 Corinthians 7:7-10; Colossians 3:5-16 ) Praise God for His love for sinners (Romans 5:8), shown by the voluntary coming of Christ and His freely laying down His life for us (John 10:18), becoming flesh/human (John 1:1-5; 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8), dying for sins of people from all nations, tribes, and cultures (Revelation 5:9), on the cross, in history, rising from the dead (Romans 10:9-10; Matthew 28, Mark 16:1-8; Luke 24; John 20-21; 1 Corinthians chapter 15). His resurrection from the dead proved that Jesus is the Messiah, the eternal Son of God, the word of God from eternity past; and that He was all the gospels say He was and that He is truth and the life and the way to salvation. (John 14:6)
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3 Responses to One of Paul Bilal Williams’ favorite conservative Christian scholars proves him wrong

  1. Sam Shamoun says:

    Brother Ken,

    I suspect that Williams will remove my comment showing that even his own false prophet endorsed the OT wars. Just in case he does, here it is for you to use against them:

    There you go condemning Muhammad and Allah again. You are either not aware of or trying to hide the fact that the Quran itself confirms the Divine approval for these OT wars, especially that of Saul and the Amalekites:

    Hast thou not Turned thy vision to the Chiefs of the Children of Israel after (the time of) Moses? They said to a prophet (That was) among them: “Appoint for us a king, that we May fight in the cause of God.” He said: “Is it not possible, if ye were commanded to fight, that that ye will not fight?” They said: “How could we refuse to fight in the cause of God, seeing that we were turned out of our homes and our families?” but when they were commanded to fight, they turned back, except a small band among them. But God Has full knowledge of those who do wrong. Their Prophet said to them: “God hath appointed Talut as king over you.” They said: “How can he exercise authority over us when we are better fitted than he to exercise authority, and he is not even gifted, with wealth in abundance?” He said: “God hath Chosen him above you, and hath gifted him abundantly with knowledge and bodily prowess: God Granteth His authority to whom He pleaseth. God careth for all, and He knoweth all things.” And (further) their Prophet said to them: “A Sign of his authority is that there shall come to you the Ark of the covenant, with (an assurance) therein of security from your Lord, and the relics left by the family of Moses and the family of Aaron, carried by angels. In this is a symbol for you if ye indeed have faith.” When Talut set forth with the armies, he said: “God will test you at the stream: if any drinks of its water, He goes not with my army: Only those who taste not of it go with me: A mere sip out of the hand is excused.” but they all drank of it, except a few. When they crossed the river,- He and the faithful ones with him,- they said: “This day We cannot cope with Goliath and his forces.” but those who were convinced that they must meet God, said: “How oft, by God’s will, Hath a small force vanquished a big one? God is with those who steadfastly persevere. When they advanced to meet Goliath and his forces, they prayed: “Our Lord! Pour out constancy on us and make our steps firm: Help us against those that reject faith.” By God’s will they routed them; and David slew Goliath; and God gave him power and wisdom and taught him whatever (else) He willed. And did not God Check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief: But God is full of bounty to all the worlds. S. 2:246-251 Y. Ali

    The Quran recounts the story of the people of Israel asking the prophet Samuel for a king, Saul’s appointment as a king, Saul’s wars, and David killing Goliath (cf. 1 Samuel 8-17). What is interesting about all this is that even though the Quranic narration presupposes the biblical account of God’s commission to wipe out the Amalekites it nowhere condemns this Divine decree. It does not say that Saul killing women and children was an evil thing or that the Israelites tampered with the story since this isn’t how it happened; nor does it deny that these things did happen. Its very mention in the Quran without any qualification presupposes that the author of the Quran had absolutely no problem with these wars since he believed that God sanctioned them. So why do you go against the teachings of your own book (as false as it is) and attack the Bible for something with which the Quran implicitly attests?

    There is more. Note what this next report says regarding Muhammad’s view of the prophet Joshua’s battles against the enemies of God:

    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    The Prophet said, “A prophet amongst the prophets carried out a holy military expedition, so he said to his followers, ‘Anyone who has married a woman and wants to consummate the marriage, and has not done so yet, should not accompany me; nor should a man who has built a house but has not completed its roof; nor a man who has sheep or she camels and is waiting for the birth of their young ones.’ So, the prophet carried out the expedition and when he reached that town at the time or nearly at the time of the ‘Asr prayer, he said to the sun, ‘O sun! You are under Allah’s Order and I am under Allah’s Order. O Allah! Stop it (i.e. the sun) from setting.’ It was stopped till Allah made him victorious. Then he collected the booty and the fire came to burn it, but it did not burn it. He said (to his men), ‘Some of you have stolen something from the booty. So one man from every tribe should give me a pledge of allegiance by shaking hands with me.’ (They did so and) the hand of a man got stuck over the hand of their prophet. Then that prophet said (to the man), ‘The theft has been committed by your people. So all the persons of your tribe should give me the pledge of allegiance by shaking hands with me.’ The hands of two or three men got stuck over the hand of their prophet and he said, “You have committed the theft.’ Then they brought a head of gold like the head of a cow and put it there, and the fire came and consumed the booty. The Prophet added: Then Allah saw our weakness and disability, so he made booty legal for us.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 53, Number 353)

    Here Muhammad conflates several biblical stories, namely, Moses’ instruction in Deuteronomy 20:1-9, and Joshua’s expeditions against Ai and the king of Jerusalem (cf. Joshua 7 and 10). These are the very expeditions where God commanded Joshua and the Israelites to wipe out everything that breathes! Hence, if this hadith is to be accepted as reliable, and Sunnis do believe that it is authentic since it comes from the sahih collection of al-Bukhari, then this again shows that Muhammad had no problems with God’s orders to the Israelites to annihilate everything that breathes, including women, children and livestock. So why should you have a problem?

    Since you obviously know more than your own god and prophet why are you still a Muslim?

  2. Sam Shamoun says:

    Here is more for you Ken. Continuing this theme of the Quran and sunna affirming the justice behind God sanctioning these destructions, note further what these sources say concerning the killing of infants and children which you already are familiar with:

    “So they journeyed on till when they met a young boy; he slew him. Moses said, ‘What! hast thou slain an innocent person without his having slain anyone! Surely, thou hast done a hideous thing’ … ‘And as for the youth, his parents were believers, and we feared lest on growing up he should involve them into trouble through rebellion and disbelief;’” S. 18:74, 80 Sher Ali

    Here we have an alleged companion of Moses killing and justifying the killing of a young innocent boy on the grounds that the boy may have grown up to be a rebellious unbeliever. Therefore if Muhammadans like Shabir have issues with the Holy Bible on this matter then they need to take issue with their own sources condoning the killing of a young boy who may have, or may have not, grown up to be a disbeliever.

    In other places the Quran, in agreement with the Holy Bible, says that God destroyed the people of Noah and Lot. It even mentions other places that were completely annihilated by Allah, such as the people of Ad, Madyan and Thamud (Cf. Surahs 7:59-102; 11:25-95; 69:3-12). What this basically means is that Allah decreed the utter death and destruction of not just men, but of women, children and infants also!

    For example, noted Muslim historian al-Tabari stated that the so-called prophet Salih allegedly commanded certain persons of Thamud to kill the children so as to prevent one of them from growing up and killing the she-camel:

    According to Hajjaj- Ibn Jurayj: When Salih told the eight evildoers that a boy would be born at whose hands they would be destroyed, they said, “What do you command us?” He said, “I command you to kill THEM” (that is their male children). SO THEY KILLED THEM except one… (The History of Al-Tabari: Prophets and Patriarchs, translated by William M. Brinner [State University of New York Press (SUNY), 1987], Volume II, p. 43; capital emphasis ours)

    Now unless Muslims like Shabir want to argue that there were no women, children and infants in all these places, or that Allah’s prophets never commanded the death of children in any circumstances, then it is pretty clear that the Quran has no problem with God killing infants.

    What is more, the so-called sound Islamic narrations permit the killing of women and children in specific situations:

    Narrated As-Sab bin Jaththama:
    The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, “They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans).” I also heard the Prophet saying, “The institution of Hima is invalid except for Allah and His Apostle.” (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 256)

    Chapter 9: PERMISSIBILITY OF KILLING WOMEN AND CHILDREN IN THE NIGHT RAIDS, PROVIDED IT IS NOT DELIBERATE
    It is reported on the authority of Sa’b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them. (Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Number 4321)

    It is narrated by Sa’b b. Jaththama that he said (to the Holy Prophet): Messenger of Allah, we kill the children of the polytheists during the night raids. He said: They are from them. (Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Number 4322, also Number 4323)

    In fact, the supposed sound ahadith proclaim that when Allah decides to destroy or kill a people he does so indiscriminately:

    Narrated Ibn ‘Umar: Allah’s Apostle said, “If Allah sends punishment upon a nation then it befalls upon the WHOLE population INDISCRIMINATELY and then they will be resurrected (and judged) according to their deeds.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 88, Number 224)

    Here is another English version of this particular narration:

    XVIII. When Allah sends down a punishment on a people
    6691. Hamza ibn ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Umar related that he heard Ibn ‘Umar say, “The Messenger of Allah said, ‘When Allah sends down a punishment on a people, the punishment will strike ALL THOSE WHO ARE AMONG THEM, and then they will be resurrected commensurate with their actions.’” (Aisha Bewley, The Sahih Collection of al-Bukhari, 96. Book of Trials)

    Thus, the Muslim sources clearly teach that Allah doesn’t spare anyone from the punishment and destruction which he sends upon a people.

    To make matters worse, the Quran says that the destruction that Allah brings upon all is quite painful:

    Such is the seizing of thy Lord, when He seizes the cities that are evildoing; surely His seizing IS PAINFUL, TERRIBLE. S. 11:102 Arberry

  3. Sam Shamoun says:

    Finally Ken, the following OT texts indicate that God didn’t necessarily approve of all the violence and wars carried out by his prophets:

    “And Solomon sent word to Hiram, saying, ‘You know how David my father was unable to build a house for the name of the Lord his God BECAUSE OF THE WARS ALL AROUND HIM, until the Lord put his enemies under his feet.'” 1 Kings 5:2-3

    “David said to Solomon, ‘My son, I had it in my heart to build a house for the name of the Lord my God, but the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “YOU HAVE SHED MUCH BLOOD AND WAGED GREAT WARS. YOU SHALL NOT BUILD A HOUSE FOR MY NAME BECAUSE YOU HAVE SHED MUCH BLED ON THE EARTH BEFORE ME. A son shall be born to you who shall be a man of rest. I will give him rest from all his enemies all around. Solomon will be his name, and I will give peace and tranquility to Israel in his days. He will be the one to build a house for My name. He shall be a son to Me, and I will be a father to him, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.”’” 1 Chronicles 22:7-10

    “So King David rose to his feet and said, ‘Hear me, my brothers and my people. I had it in my heart to build a house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the Lord, a footstool for the feet of our God, so I prepared to build it. But God said to me, “You shall not build a house for My name BECAUSE YOU ARE A MAN OF WAR AND HAVE SPILLED MUCH BLOOD.”’” 1 Chronicles 28:2-3

    This gives us an idea about how God feels about shedding blood, and shows that he is not a blood thirsty genocidal maniac as some enemies of the Faith like Shabir and Williams slanderously and blasphemously claim.

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