15 Questions for Evolutionists

15 Questions for Evolutionists:  These are the main scientific questions that bring Darwin’s theory of Macro-Evolution (change from one species or kind into another) into question.  Each question has a video presentation also.

http://creation.com/15-questions-for-evolutionists

About Ken Temple

I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I am a sinner who has been saved by the grace of God alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), through faith alone (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:28; 4:1-16), in Christ alone (John 14:6). But a true faith does not stay alone, it should result in change, fruit, good works, and deeper levels of repentance and hatred of my own sins of selfishness and pride. I am not better than you! I still make mistakes and sin, but the Lord is working on me, conforming me to His character. (Romans 8:28-29; 2 Corinthians 3:16-18) When I do sin, I hate the sin as it is an affront to God, and seek His forgiveness in repentance. (Mark 1:15; 2 Corinthians 7:7-10; Colossians 3:5-16 ) Praise God for His love for sinners (Romans 5:8), shown by the voluntary coming of Christ and His freely laying down His life for us (John 10:18), becoming flesh/human (John 1:1-5; 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8), dying for sins of people from all nations, tribes, and cultures (Revelation 5:9), on the cross, in history, rising from the dead (Romans 10:9-10; Matthew 28, Mark 16:1-8; Luke 24; John 20-21; 1 Corinthians chapter 15). His resurrection from the dead proved that Jesus is the Messiah, the eternal Son of God, the word of God from eternity past; and that He was all the gospels say He was and that He is truth and the life and the way to salvation. (John 14:6)
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34 Responses to 15 Questions for Evolutionists

  1. θ says:

    Evolution idea of random mutation is a lesser version of Spirit.
    If the cosmic ray can cause a relatively quick change as “mutation”, the God’s Spirit can cause an immediate change of the basic classical elements (dust, water, wind, fire) to be the bones, sinews, flesh, and soul.

    • Ken Temple says:

      Did you mean this?

      The Evolutionary idea (or The theory of Evolution’s idea) of random mutation is a lesser version of the Spirit. (or God’s Spirit” or “the Holy Spirit” or “a spirit” ?)
      If the cosmic ray can cause a relatively quick change as “mutation”, then God’s Spirit can cause an immediate change of the basic classical elements (dust, water, wind, fire) to be the bones, sinews, flesh, and soul.

      Many times you leave out words and I don’t follow you, but I think I understand what you are saying this time.

      the problem with that, is, if you really mean “God’s Spirit” or “The Spirit of God” or “The Holy Spirit” ( are you saying “the Spirit of Allah”, from Islamic perspective? = Allah’s unseen power in action (?) – still the problem is that mutations are never good and they never survive long enough to produce new offspring. Mutations are the exact opposite of the Evolutionary idea of “the survival of the fittest.”

      Another thing you are simply assuming and asserting that 2 (or 3 with the cosmic ray) things that are unseen and mysterious (Spirit and an unseen theory of Evolutionary mechanism (like gravity or radiation) or cosmic rays) are equal or somehow related.

      • θ says:

        Of course God has foreseen that Adam shall fall quickly in a week, hence the world of Genesis which God created ex nihilo just sustained for a week. That word of Genesis was of creationism like mutation, not getting survived long enough, not to sustain the next generation.

        Eden is not designed for long time. Foreknowledge certainly is a reason for God to create the first world in efficient ways. In similar ways, usually God gives or opens the sources of richness to a sinners because he foreknows they would not live longer. It is like how a father grants all wishes of his ailing child because he knows the child would not live longer.

      • θ says:

        Usually God gives or opens the sources of richness to the sinners because He foreknows they would not live longer (will not have a life in the afterworld). It is like how a father grants all wishes of his ailing child because he knows the child would not live longer.

        Prayer: learning how to not become a cause of self-mistake itself.
        -do you think somehow God doesn’t know, or needs to make known?
        -do you tell God by mouth or voices of what He doesn’t know?
        -do you force or command God?
        -do you not accept that God has His own will?
        -do you dare to disagree with or dishonor God’s will?
        -do you not get relieved to realize that actually you don’t need what you desire if it doesn’t cope with God’s will?
        -do you get God or else, or both?

        It is a fact that when the prayer is unanswered by God, the sinner turns to Satan for a help.
        Satan gives illusion in our mind that we get what we ask him but actually we don’t.

        God’s will determines an illusion that a sinner has to get.
        God’s will determines a reality which a believer can and will never get, not even in thousand of thousand years of the illusion of the time in this world.

  2. Ken Temple says:

    You write English words; but some of what you are trying to communicate is not comprehendible. And prayer and God’s will is not the subject of this post.

    However, I will comment on the issue of prayer and God’s will.

    Prayer is worship and submission to God, true. (praise of God’s attributes, thanksgiving for God’s gifts and blessings, worship, submission, confession of sins, confessions of struggles (a lot of that in Hadzrat Davood’s Psalms) requests) Prayer changes us more; true Biblical prayer changes us when it is informed by reading, studying, and meditating in the Bible. (not Qur’an)
    We never change God’s mind; rather by submissive prayer, meditation in the word, and obedience, and trials and proper response to trials, (Hebrews 12:7-11), we become more conformed to the character of Jesus Christ – “that we may share in His holiness”.

    We can never force God or command God to do anything.
    But we can ask in humility, and with confidence based on the promises of God’s Word. (the Bible, properly understood in their intention by the author.)

    Jesus said,
    “Pray in this way:
    Father in heaven,
    May Your name be treated as holy,
    May Your Kingdom Come,
    May Your will be done
    . . .
    Matthew 6:9-10 and following

    and His attitude is the right one:
    “O Father,
    Not My will, but Yours be done.”
    Luke 22:42

    • θ says:

      My underline is actually on the difficult issue of “unanswered prayer”, Why does it appear as if God limited Himself by not granting the prayers of person who pray to Him, but weirdly oftentimes answering the sinners who don’t ever pray – or stop from praying – to Him?
      It doesn’t mean God can’t do or does not have a mercy and Omnipotence. It doesn’t either mean God hates. God grants the sinners urgently despite not praying to Him because He pities them for having a shorter life, that is by totally missing the everlasting happiness in the future. God acts as if He overlooked or didn’t prioritise the prayers of those who pray to Him.

      • Ken Temple says:

        “My underline . . . “ = ?

        This has no meaning.

        Do you mean to say
        1. My underlying meaning is . . .
        or
        2. My underlying emphasis is . . .
        or
        3. My bottomline is . . .
        ??

        If you mean one of those, then I can understand what you are getting at; I think. (?)

        by itself “My underline . . .” with the rest of the sentence, does not make sense. No offense is intended, I just honestly don’t understand sentences when they are like that; and this is another example of when I don’t understand what you are trying to say. You have a lot of sentences like that.

      • θ says:

        Sorry, no offense, actually I know I can easily rephrase a lot of my sentences much better or make a more detailed and comprehensible sentence. English is easy by the way. But, I am sorry oftentimes I just don’t have much time just for that. I hope you would pardon me.

  3. Ken Temple says:

    On the issue of unanswered prayer:
    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    Matthew 5:43-48

    Both believers and unbelievers and those who pray and don’t pray have to experience the same creational providences (rain, storms, sunshine, earthquakes, accidents, etc.)

    That is God’s providence in controlling nature. Both guilty and innocent suffer and both also get the benefits of creation. But only believers in Christ get heaven. (John 14:6; Acts 4:12; Romans 10:13-15; John 3:18; 3:36)

    Unanswered and answered prayer:
    John 15:7
    Psalm 66:18
    I Peter 3:7
    John 14:13-14 ( In Jesus’ name is another way of saying “if it according to God’s will, based on the character and authority of Jesus; saying “in Jesus name” does not count – that is just words, and can be faked.)
    1 John 5:14 – “according to God’s will”

  4. θ says:

    “Ken Temple says: Both believers and unbelievers and those who pray and don’t pray have to experience the same creational providences (rain, storms, sunshine, earthquakes, accidents, etc.)”

    Your Bible lacked a crucial wisdom to explain why your Jesus just lets so many prayers unanswered. Accept that fact, be honest. Many Christians turned away from Jesus to Atheism and also a lots of them turned to Islam because they can’t cope anymore with a deceit which the Bible keeps repeating that Jesus shall do whatever they ask him for. In fact he doesn’t.

    Your referring to the undiscriminating mercy of God toward both believer and unbeliever just adds insult to injury since you just prove the prayer is a vain thing. You give a wrong misleading answer on the prayer. Normally, by praying to God a believer hopes to get much attention from Him more better than those who don’t pray to Him, right? The Bible just can’t explain or answer a topic of the unanswered prayer.

    In Islam, the wisdom for the unanswered prayer is given. Allah pities the unbelievers because they just would live shorter and will not have happiness afterward, nevertheless Allah doesn’t deal unjustly on them, per Q.11, v.15-16, Q.42, v.20. All unanswered prayer of Moslems turn to be a redemption of sin as well as prevention of folly in life, as Q.11, v.46-47.

    “Ken Temple says: But only believers in Christ get heaven. (John 14:6; Acts 4:12; Romans 10:13-15; John 3:18; 3:36)”

    That’s another reason why your Jesus is very capricious, narcissistic and irrational. Innocent children who died early and non-Christians who don’t have a chance to believe in Jesus shall be ended up in hell.
    By the way, nothing of Jesus can redeem or ransom himself and his followers, not even by his blood, or death, or flesh, or soul. A man who dies can’t redeem the living. That’s only the immortal God who can redeem freely, since God doesn’t have blood, flesh, and mortal nature.
    Ps 49
    7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him, 8 For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever:9 That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption.10 For he seeth that wise men die, likewise the fool and the brutish person perish, and leave their wealth to others.11 Their inward thought is, that their houses shall continue for ever, and their dwelling places to all generations; they call their lands after their own names.12 Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.13 This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah.14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.

  5. Ken Temple says:

    Your Bible lacked a crucial wisdom to explain why your Jesus just lets so many prayers unanswered. Accept that fact, be honest. Many Christians turned away from Jesus to Atheism and also a lots of them turned to Islam because they can’t cope anymore with a deceit which the Bible keeps repeating that Jesus shall do whatever they ask him for. In fact he doesn’t.

    Jesus never promised to do anything we ask Him for; He promised to do what was according to His name = according to His will and character. His name is His character and authority and will.
    So you are wrong, period.

    • θ says:

      Circular absurdity. It is the will of Jesus to not answer the prayers in his name but rather answer those who don’t pray or turn to Satan for praying. Paul mocks it as absurd character in his rhetoric “to sin more for making grace more abound”. Story of Lasarus is the earliest example for intentional abandonment, as well as the sickness of Paul.

  6. Ken Temple says:

    That’s another reason why your Jesus is very capricious, narcissistic and irrational. Innocent children who died early and non-Christians who don’t have a chance to believe in Jesus shall be ended up in hell.

    No; many do go to heaven – maybe all. There are two orthodox views on this. Some believe all infants who die before they are old enough to understand, repent and believe in Christ, and also people with mental disabilities also go to heaven.

    Others believe that there are elected infants that God knows who are saved, but we don’t know who they were. Some are saved and some are not; maybe all; we don’t know. This is based on the doctrine of election, God’s sovereignty and God’s freedom.

  7. θ says:

    “Ken Temple says: Some believe all infants who die before they are old enough to understand, repent and believe in Christ, and also people with mental disabilities also go to heaven.”

    It means that not only believers in Christ get heaven (John 14:6; Acts 4:12; Romans 10:13-15; John 3:18; 3:36), the belief in Jesus is not the sole criterion for salvation. High Christology is ruined.

  8. Sam Shamoun says:

    Ken, I tried posting this at William’s blog but he has blocked my comments. Here are a slew of texts all from Luke-Acts proving that a person is not blameless by keeping the Law but but the grace of the Lord Jesus through faith. Please use these texts in your apologetic. With one exception they are all taken from the NRSV:

    The Basis of a Person’s Salvation and Blamelessness

    “Then his father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke this prophecy: ‘Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, for he has looked favorably on his people and redeemed them. He has raised up A MIGHTY SAVIOR for us in the house of his servant David, as he spoke through the mouth of his holy prophets from of old, that we would be saved from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us. Thus he has shown the mercy promised to our ancestors, and has remembered his holy covenant, the oath that he swore to our ancestor Abraham, to grant us that we, being rescued from the hands of our enemies, might serve him without fear, in holiness and righteousness before him all our days. And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Most High; for you will go before the Lord to prepare his ways, to give knowledge of salvation to his people by the forgiveness of their sins. By the tender mercy of our God, the dawn from on high will break upon us, to give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.’ The child grew and became strong in spirit, and he was in the wilderness until the day he appeared publicly to Israel.” Luke 1:67-80

    “Then an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, ‘Do not be afraid; for see—I am bringing you good news of great joy for all the people: to you is born this day in the city of David A SAVIOR, who is the Messiah, the Lord.” Luke 2:9-11

    “God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and SAVIOR that he might give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.” Acts 5:31

    “When he had removed him, he made David their king. In his testimony about him he said, ‘I have found David, son of Jesse, to be a man after my heart, who will carry out all my wishes.’ Of this man’s posterity God has brought to Israel A SAVIOR, Jesus, as he promised… Let it be known to you therefore, my brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you; by this Jesus everyone who believes is set free from all those sins from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.” Acts 13:22-23, 38-39

    “Then he said to her, ‘Your sins are forgiven.’ But those who were at the table with him began to say among themselves, ‘Who is this who even forgives sins?’ And he said to the woman, ‘Your faith has saved you; go in peace.’” Luke 7:48-50

    “Then Jesus said to him, ‘Today salvation has come to this house, because he too is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man came to seek out and TO SAVE the lost.’” Luke 19:9-10

    “After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, ‘My brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that I should be the one through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the good news and become believers. And God, who knows the human heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us; and in cleansing their hearts by faith he has made no distinction between them and us. Now therefore why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe that we will be SAVED through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.’” Acts 15:7-11

    “Then he brought them outside and said, ‘Sirs, what must I do to be SAVED?’ They answered, ‘Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be SAVED, you and your household.’” Acts 16:30-31

    Repentance and Forgiveness of Sins

    “Then he said to them, ‘These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you—that everything written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms must be fulfilled.’ Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures, and he said to them, ‘Thus it is written, that the Messiah is to suffer and to rise from the dead on the third day, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins is to be proclaimed IN HIS NAME to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.’” Luke 24:44-47

    “All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” Acts 10:43

    Divine Confirmation

    “One day, while he was teaching, Pharisees and teachers of the law were sitting near by (they had come from every village of Galilee and Judea and from Jerusalem); and the power of the Lord was with him to heal. Just then some men came, carrying a paralyzed man on a bed. They were trying to bring him in and lay him before Jesus; but finding no way to bring him in because of the crowd, they went up on the roof and let him down with his bed through the tiles into the middle of the crowd in front of Jesus. When he saw THEIR FAITH, he said, ‘Friend, your sins are forgiven you.’ Then the scribes and the Pharisees began to question, ‘Who is this who is speaking blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?’ When Jesus perceived their questionings, he answered them, ‘Why do you raise such questions in your hearts? Which is easier, to say, “Your sins are forgiven you,” or to say, “Stand up and walk”? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins’—he said to the one who was paralyzed—‘I say to you, stand up and take your bed and go to your home.’ Immediately he stood up before them, took what he had been lying on, and went to his home, glorifying God. Amazement seized all of them, and they glorified God and were filled with awe, saying, ‘We have seen strange things today.’” Luke 5:17-26

    “And it came to pass, in the turning back of Jesus, the multitude received him, for they were all looking for him, and lo, there came a man, whose name [is] Jairus, and he was a chief of the synagogue, and having fallen at the feet of Jesus, was calling on him to come to his house; because he had an only daughter about twelve years [old], and she was dying. And in his going away, the multitudes were thronging him, and a woman, having an issue of blood for twelve years, who, having spent on physicians all her living, was not able to be healed by any, having come near behind, touched the fringe of his garment, and presently the issue of her blood stood. And Jesus said, `Who [is] it that touched me?’ and all denying, Peter and those with him said, `Master, the multitudes press thee, and throng [thee], and thou dost say, Who [is] it that touched me!’ And Jesus said, `Some one did touch me, for I knew power having gone forth from me.’ And the woman, having seen that she was not hid, trembling, came, and having fallen before him, for what cause she touched him declared to him before all the people, and how she was healed presently; and he said to her, `Take courage, daughter, THY FAITH hath saved thee, be going on to peace.’ While he is yet speaking, there doth come a certain one from the chief of the synagogue’s [house], saying to him – `Thy daughter hath died, harass not the Teacher;’ and Jesus having heard, answered him, saying, `Be not afraid, ONLY BELIEVE, and she shall be saved.’ And having come to the house, he suffered no one to go in, except Peter, and James, and John, and the father of the child, and the mother; and they were all weeping, and beating themselves for her, and he said, `Weep not, she did not die, but doth sleep; and they were deriding him, knowing that she did die; and he having put all forth without, and having taken hold of her hand, called, saying, `Child, arise;’ and her spirit came back, and she arose presently, and he directed that there be given to her to eat; and her parents were amazed, but he charged them to say to no one what was come to pass.” Luke 8:40-56 Young’s Literal Translation

    “As he approached Jericho, a blind man was sitting by the roadside begging. When he heard a crowd going by, he asked what was happening. They told him, ‘Jesus of Nazareth is passing by.’ Then he shouted, ‘Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!’ Those who were in front sternly ordered him to be quiet; but he shouted even more loudly, ‘Son of David, have mercy on me!’ Jesus stood still and ordered the man to be brought to him; and when he came near, he asked him, ‘What do you want me to do for you?’ He said, ‘Lord, let me see again.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Receive your sight; your FAITH has saved you.’ Immediately he regained his sight and followed him, glorifying God; and all the people, when they saw it, praised God.” Luke 18:35-43

    “One day Peter and John were going up to the temple at the hour of prayer, at three o’clock in the afternoon. And a man lame from birth was being carried in. People would lay him daily at the gate of the temple called the Beautiful Gate so that he could ask for alms from those entering the temple. When he saw Peter and John about to go into the temple, he asked them for alms. Peter looked intently at him, as did John, and said, ‘Look at us.’ And he fixed his attention on them, expecting to receive something from them. But Peter said, ‘I have no silver or gold, but what I have I give you; in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, stand up and walk.’ And he took him by the right hand and raised him up; and immediately his feet and ankles were made strong. Jumping up, he stood and began to walk, and he entered the temple with them, walking and leaping and praising God. All the people saw him walking and praising God, and they recognized him as the one who used to sit and ask for alms at the Beautiful Gate of the temple; and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him. While he clung to Peter and John, all the people ran together to them in the portico called Solomon’s Portico, utterly astonished. When Peter saw it, he addressed the people, ‘You Israelites, why do you wonder at this, or why do you stare at us, as though by our own power or piety we had made him walk? The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our ancestors has glorified his servant Jesus, whom you handed over and rejected in the presence of Pilate, though he had decided to release him. But you rejected the Holy and Righteous One and asked to have a murderer given to you, and you killed the Author of life, whom God raised from the dead. To this we are witnesses. And by faith in his name, his name itself has made this man strong, whom you see and know; and the faith that is through Jesus has given him this perfect health in the presence of all of you… When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you, to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.” Acts 3:1-16

    “The next day their rulers, elders, and scribes assembled in Jerusalem, with Annas the high priest, Caiaphas, John, and Alexander, and all who were of the high-priestly family. When they had made the prisoners stand in their midst, they inquired, ‘By what power or by what name did you do this?’ Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, ‘Rulers of the people and elders, if we are questioned today because of a good deed done to someone who was sick and are asked how this man has been healed, let it be known to all of you, and to all the people of Israel, that this man is standing before you in good health by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead. This Jesus is “the stone that was rejected by you, the builders; it has become the cornerstone.” THERE IS SALVATION IN NO ONE ELSE, for there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven given among mortals by which we must be SAVED.’ Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John and realized that they were uneducated and ordinary men, they were amazed and recognized them as companions of Jesus. When they saw the man who had been cured standing beside them, they had nothing to say in opposition.” Acts 4:5-14

    “In those days Mary set out and went with haste to a Judean town in the hill country, where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the child leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and exclaimed with a loud cry, ‘Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And why has this happened to me, that the mother of MY LORD comes to me? For as soon as I heard the sound of your greeting, the child in my womb leaped for joy. And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her by the Lord.’” Luke 1:39-45

    • Ken Temple says:

      Thanks, saved me a lot of cut and paste efforts. I used some of them; so as not to overload the com box. I hope Muslims read them and think about them. It seems that they don’t really read the Bible in context; but just get verses out of context and cherry-picked from Muslim dawa sites.

      Nabeel Qureshi admitted that in his book, “Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus” – only when he started reading the Bible like starting at Matthew 1:1 and going verse by verse, chapter by chapter, did it really start affecting him deeply.

      • Sam Shamoun says:

        BTW, the reason why I included the last passage at the very end is because this shows that the Holy Spirit filled Elizabeth to worship Jesus as her Lord even though he had just been conceived in the blessed womb of his mother no more than a week earlier. And you even have John in his mother’s womb being caused by the Holy Spirit to recognize and leap for joy at the sound of the voice of his Lord’s mother! (cf. Luke 1:15).

      • Ken Temple says:

        Yeah, I actually mentioned that section to Paul Williams and told him to keep reading the whole chapter of Luke 1.
        Thanks again!

      • θ says:

        Acts 13
        16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

        Is this event with men of Israel a fiction or nonsense? How could there be certain sins which the Law of Moses can’t justify? Which sin is it possibly?

      • Sam Shamoun says:

        Another thing brother Ken is that Luke 1:41-44 is a powerful refutation to abortion since it shows that human life begins at conception seeing that our Lord is about a week old in the womb with John being six months old in his mother’s womb.

      • Ken Temple says:

        Amen! Excellent point.

      • Sam Shamoun says:

        More ammo for you brother Ken. I just posted this on Paul’s blog in response to his butchering of Deuteronomy 30. Hope this helps:

        Williams, I thought we already went thru this. I corrected your highly selective citations from Deuteronomy by showing you what Yahweh goes on to say IN THE VERY NEXT CHAPTER!

        The Lord said to Moses, “Your time to die is near; call Joshua and present yourselves in the tent of meeting, so that I may commission him.” So Moses and Joshua went and presented themselves in the tent of meeting, 15 and the Lord appeared at the tent in a pillar of cloud; the pillar of cloud stood at the entrance to the tent.

        16 The Lord said to Moses, “Soon you will lie down with your ancestors. THEN THIS PEOPLE WILL BEGIN TO PROSTITUTE THEMSELVES TO THE FOREIGN GODS IN THEIR MIDST, the gods of the land into which they are going; THEY WILL FORSAKE ME, BREAKING MY COVENANT that I have made with them. My anger will be kindled against them in that day. I will forsake them and hide my face from them; they will become easy prey, and many terrible troubles will come upon them. In that day they will say, ‘Have not these troubles come upon us because our God is not in our midst?’ On that day I will surely hide my face ON ACCOUNT OF ALL THE EVIL THEY HAVE DONE BY TURNING TO OTHER GODS. 19 Now therefore write this song, and teach it to the Israelites; put it in their mouths, IN ORDER THAT THIS SONG MAY BE A WITNESS FOR ME AGAINST THE ISRAELITES. 20 For when I have brought them into the land flowing with milk and honey, which I promised on oath to their ancestors, and they have eaten their fill and grown fat, THEY WILL TURN TO OTHER GODS AND SERVE THEM. DESPISING ME AND BREAKING MY COVENANT. 21 And when many terrible troubles come upon them, this song will confront them as a witness, because it will not be lost from the mouths of their descendants. FOR I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE INCLINED TO DO EVEN NOW, before I have brought them into the land that I promised them on oath.” 22 That very day Moses wrote this song and taught it to the Israelites.

        23 Then the Lord commissioned Joshua son of Nun and said, “Be strong and bold, for you shall bring the Israelites into the land that I promised them; I will be with you.”

        24 When Moses had finished writing down in a book the words of this law to the very end, 25 Moses commanded the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying, 26 “Take this book of the law and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God; let it remain there AS A WITNESS AGAINST YOU. 27 For I know well HOW REBELLIOUS AND STUBBORN YOU ARE. If you already have been so rebellious toward the Lord while I am still alive among you, HOW MUCH MORE AFTER MY DEATH! 28 Assemble to me all the elders of your tribes and your officials, so that I may recite these words in their hearing and call heaven and earth TO WITNESS AGAINST THEM. 29 For I KNOW that after my death YOU WILL SURELY ACT CORRUPTLY, TURNING ASIDE FROM THE WAY THAT I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. In time to come trouble will befall you, BECAUSE YOU WILL DO WHAT IS EVIL IN THE SIGHT OF THE LORD, PROVOKING HIM TO ANGER through the work of your hands.”

        30 Then Moses recited the words of this song, to the very end, in the hearing of the whole assembly of Israel: Deuteronomy 31:14-30

        Could Moses have been any clearer that, though God’s commands are not hard to observe, Israel was incapable of observing them due to being a group of unregenerate, stiff necked rebels who could not help but disobey God. In other words, the problem is not with God’s commands, but with the fallen, corrupt, tainted nature of man. Now pay attention to what Joshua told the Israelites:

        “Now therefore revere the Lord, and serve him in sincerity and in faithfulness; put away the gods that your ancestors served beyond the River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 Now if you are unwilling to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served in the region beyond the River or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”

        16 Then the people answered, “Far be it from us that we should forsake the Lord to serve other gods; 17 for it is the Lord our God who brought us and our ancestors up from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery, and who did those great signs in our sight. He protected us along all the way that we went, and among all the peoples through whom we passed; 18 and the Lord drove out before us all the peoples, the Amorites who lived in the land. Therefore we also will serve the Lord, for he is our God.”

        19 But Joshua said to the people, “YOU CANNOT SERVE THE LORD, for he is a holy God. He is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions or your sins. 20 If you forsake the Lord and serve foreign gods, then he will turn and do you harm, and consume you, after having done you good.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, we will serve the Lord!” 22 Then Joshua said to the people, “YOU ARE WITNESSES AGAINST YOURSELVES that you have chosen the Lord, to serve him.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” 23 He said, “Then put away the foreign gods that are among you, and incline your hearts to the Lord, the God of Israel.” 24 The people said to Joshua, “The Lord our God we will serve, and him we will obey.” 25 So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and made statutes and ordinances for them at Shechem. 26 Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God; and he took a large stone, and set it up there under the oak in the sanctuary of the Lord. 27 Joshua said to all the people, “See, this stone shall be A WITNESS AGAINST US; for it has heard all the words of the Lord that he spoke to us; therefore it shall be A WITNESS AGAINST YOU, if you deal falsely with your God.” 28 So Joshua sent the people away to their inheritances. Joshua 24:14-28

        Here we again have a reaffirmation of Israel’s inability to serve God because of their corrupt sinful nature. This is why they and the rest of us need a Savior.

        So the context of these passages prove that the blessed Apostle Paul knew a lot more than you do, and a lot more than Muhammad and the rabbis did, since he understood and correctly interpreted the Hebrew Bible by the grace of the Lord Jesus.

        So much for your appeal to Deuteronomy 30.

    • θ says:

      “Sam Shamoun says: Jesus said to him, ‘Receive your sight; your FAITH has saved you.’ ”

      Hence, the meaning of being “saved” in Christianity is just as physical as getting healed from the blindness to sighting. How shortsighted.
      Saved? there’s a possessed person whom Jesus healed or “saved” but then Jesus can’t save him any longer:
      Lk 11
      14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.26 Then goeth he, and taketh [to him] seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

      There are at least two occasions when even Jesus can’t give a greater heavenly sight when being asked. Jesus just dismissed the challenge.
      Lk 11
      16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
      Jn 14
      8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?10
      Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

      “Sam Shamoun says: ” THERE IS SALVATION IN NO ONE ELSE, for there is NO OTHER NAME under heaven given among mortals by which we must be SAVED.’ ”

      Christians still want to call Jesus to be saved? There are many things that Jesus can’t do or can’t promise.
      Jn 14
      9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
      Mt 7
      21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
      Mt 20
      21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

      “Sam Shamoun says: And why has this happened to me, that the mother of MY LORD comes to me?”

      Jehovah has a mother? A woman is able to conceive Jehovah? Why do the Trinitarians not see the demonic problem of their High Christology?

    • θ says:

      What does the wording “God with us” mean? It just means the prophet is roused up among people. It doesn’t means literally God descends to the earth.
      Lk 7:16
      And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is roused up among us; and, That the God hath visited his people.

    • θ says:

      Do Christians lack the basic understanding and not think properly? To substitute the grace to 4 Laws of Moses is to confirm the Law of Moses. It seemed God for the Holy Ghost to substitute grace with 4 Laws which Moses did aforetime. No is Yes.
      Jn 7
      23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken;
      Acts 15
      7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

    • Sam Shamoun says:

      Brother Ken,

      I just posted this on Paul’s blog and my comment went thru. However, I suspect he is going to delete so you now have what I wrote so as to add to your arsenal:

      And yet what is more laughable is that your Quran claims that Moses and the prophets like Jesus knew of an Arab an illiterate profit to come, with Jesus even naming him Ahmad! Q. 7:157; 61:6

      Now that is a comedy smash hit!

      Since Jesus spoke Aramaic could you be so kind and tell us what the Aramaic form or equivalent of Ahmad is?

  9. Sam Shamoun says:

    Brother Ken, here is what I posted in Williams’ post on John 10:30 and 17:21. Enjoy!

    Since you quoted John you are now stuck with it now that I am going to use the context of the passages you cited against you.

    Let’s reread John 17:21 carefully:

    “And now I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them in your name that you have given me, SO THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE ONE… THAT THEY MAY ALL BE ONE. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given them, SO THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE ONE, I IN THEM and you in me, THAT THEY MAY BECOME COMPLETELY ONE, so that the world may know that you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. ” John 17:11, 21-23

    Williams, please be so kind and show me where it says the disciples ARE ONE WITH THE FATHER AND THE SON! The text says that the disciples will be one with each other AS THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE ONE. It nowhere says they are one with the Father and the Son. Moreover, Jesus says that he is personally IN ALL OF THE DISCIPLES, which results in their being made one with each other. This is an explicit claim to omnipresence, omniscience, and omnipotence since Jesus must know who the true disciples are and have the ability to then gather them together forever.

    Now let’s see the context of John 10:30, shall we?

    MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE. I know them, and they follow me. 28 I GIVE THEM ETERNAL LIFE, and they will never perish. NO ONE WILL SNATCH THEM OUT OF MY HAND. 29 What my Father has given me is greater than all else, and no one can snatch it out of the Father’s hand.[a] 30 The Father and I are one.” John 10:27-30

    Here Jesus says he is one with the Father in his ability to grant all believers everlasting life and preserving them from every perishing. He further claims that true believers are his sheep under his care (i.e., “from my hands”) whose voice they always here.

    Now anyone familiar with the OT realizes that Jesus just attributed himself the very unique prerogatives and functions ascribed to Yahweh alone:

    “See now that I, even I, am he; there is no god besides me. I kill AND I MAKE ALIVE; I wound and I heal; AND NO ONE CAN DELIVER FROM MY HAND.” Deuteronomy 32:39

    “O come, let us worship and bow down, let us kneel before the Lord, our Maker! 7 For he is our God, and we are the people of his pasture, AND THE SHEEP OF HIS HAND. O that today YOU WOULD LISTEN TO HIS VOICE! 8 Do not harden your hearts, as at Meribah, as on the day at Massah in the wilderness,” Psalm 95:6-8

    “You are my witnesses, says the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. 11 I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior. 12 I declared and saved and proclaimed, when there was no strange god among you; and you are my witnesses, says the Lord. 13 I am God, and also henceforth I AM HE; THERE IS NO ONE WHO CAN DELIVER FROM MY HAND; I work and who can hinder it?” Isaiah 43:10-13

    No wonder the Jews (correctly) assumed that Jesus, being a man, was making himself out to be God. Where they were mistaken is in assuming that he was blaspheming for making such an assertion:

    “The Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus replied, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you, but for blasphemy, BECAUSE YOU, THOUGH ONLY A HUMAN BEING, ARE MAKING YOURSELF GOD.” John 10:31-33

    Still not convinced Jesus is claiming to be God Almighty? Well then here you go:

    “Indeed, just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, SO ALSO THE SON GIVES LIFE TO WHOMEVER HE WISHES… 25 Very truly, I tell you, THE HOUR IS COMING, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted THE SON ALSO TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF… 28 Do not be astonished at this; FOR THD HOUR IS COMING is coming when all who are IN THEIR GRAVES WILL HEAR HIS [THE SON’S] VOICE 29 and will come out—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.” John 5:2, 25-26, 28-29

    “Jesus said to him, “I am the way, AND THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:6

    Here, Jesus says that he gives life and will raise the dead (both spiritually and physically) from their graves at the last hour by the sovereign power of his voice since he is the Truth and the Life. Now let’s see what your Quran says about this:

    That is because Allah, HE IS THE TRUTH, AND IT IS HE WHO GIVES LIFE TO THE DEAD, and it is He Who is Able to do all things. And surely, THE HOUR IS COMING, there is no doubt about it, and certainly, ALLAH WILL RESURRECT THOSE WHO ARE IN THE GRAVES. S. 22:6-7 Hilali-Khan

    So according to your Quran, it is Allah who gives life and raises the dead at the last hour since he is the Truth who gives life.

    All I can say is OUCH!

    With that said, could you be so kind as to quote where Jesus says anyone is one with the Father in his ability to give eternal life and preserve all true believers forever and ever?

    Finally, since in all these texts Jesus affirms that God is the Father and that he is his unique divine Son this means that your profit stands condemned as a false prophet and antichrist since he contradicted the proclamation of the Lord Jesus as found in the very Gospel that you yourself quoted with approval!

    So thank you once again Williams for helping the Christians expose Muhammad as a false prophet. Much appreciated!

  10. Sam Shamoun says:

    I also posted this in the How Awkward thread. Enjoy!

    Williams wrote:

    Correction: The injeel, which the Quran says was GIVEN TO Jesus is obviously not your New Testament.

    CORRECTING the alleged correction: The same Quran says that the Injeel which was given to Jesus WAS IN THE POSSESSION OF THE CHRISTIANS OF MUHAMMAD’S TIME AND WERE TO JUDGE BY IT:

    And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah before him and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein IS guidance and light, and confirming the Torah before it, as a guidance and an admonition unto the godfearing. So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what God has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what God has sent down — they are the ungodly. S. 5:46-48 Arberry

    those who follow the Messenger, ‘the Prophet of the common folk, whom they find written down WITH THEM in the Torah AND THE GOSPEL, bidding them to honour, and forbidding them dishonour, making lawful for them the good things and making unlawful for them the corrupt things, and relieving them of their loads, and the fetters that were upon them. Those who believe in him and succour him and help him, and follow the light that has been sent down with him — they are the prosperers.’ S. 7:157 Arberry

    And since the only Injeel the Christians historically possessed during that time is the books of the NT, Ken ends up being right ONCE AGAIN! This explains why you even have Muslim translators rendering the word Injeel as New Testament or Bible!

    The followers of the Gospels (THE NEW TESTAMENT) must judge according to what God has revealed in it. Those who do not judge by the laws of God are evil doers. S. 5:47 Muhammad Sarwar

    And We sent after (following) on their tracks with Jesus, Mary’s son confirming for what (is) between his hands from the Torah/Old Testament, and We gave him THE NEW TESTAMENT/BIBLE in it (is) guidance and light, and confirming to what (is) between his hands from the Torah/Old Testament, and guidance and a sermon/advice/warning to the fearing and obeying. And the NEW TESTAMENT’S/BIBLE’S people should judge/rule with what God descended in it, and who does not judge/rule with what God descended, so those, they are the debauchers. 5:46-47 Muhammed Ahmad – Samira

    BAM!

    • Sam Shamoun says:

      Enjoy! Williams wrote:

      BEGIN
      2 Peter was written in the 2nd century. The NT canon as you have it today was only agreed on in 4th century (not earlier). None of the 4 gospels are written by eyewitnesses.

      Jesus preached a gospel in Galilee. He wrote nothing down. But if the scraps of what remains of it in the synoptics are accurate it is this gospel and not later Christian teaching that the Quran refers to. Paul preached a different religion to your Paul (compare Matt 5:17 with Ephesians 2:15).

      OUCH!
      END

      And yet since Muhammad in the Quran confirmed the NT Scriptures that the Christians in his day possessed, Scriptures which contained the 4 Gospels and 2 Peter, this means that according to Williams his profit confirmed a 2nd century forgery and Gospels which were not written by eyewitnesses as all being the authentic revelation of God which were given as a light and guidance for mankind!

      This further means that Williams has once again proven that Muhammad was a fraud who didn’t know what he was talking about!

      Note how the following Muslims rendered Q. 5:46-47:

      And We sent after (following) on their tracks with Jesus, Mary’s son confirming for what (is) between his hands from the Torah/Old Testament, and We gave him THE NEW TESTAMENT/BIBLE in it (is) guidance and light, and confirming to what (is) between his hands from the Torah/Old Testament, and guidance and a sermon/advice/warning to the fearing and obeying. And the NEW TESTAMENT’S/BIBLE’S people SHOULD JUDGE/RULE WITH WHAT GOD DESCENDED IN IT, and who does not judge/rule with what God descended, so those, they are the debauchers. Muhammed Ahmad – Samira

      And in their footsteps (as if to follow them) We sent Isa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), restating the Torah that had come before him: We sent THE BIBLE, THE GOSPEL, the Gospel to him: There was guidance and light in it, and confirmation of Torah that had come before him: A guidance and a warning to those who fear Allah. Let the people OF BIBLE (GOSPEL), the Christians JUDGE BY WHAT ALLAH HAS MADE CLEAR IN THERE. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah has made clear, they are (no better than) those who rebel. Syed Vikar Ahamed

      The followers of the Gospels (THE NEW TESTAMENT) MUST JUDGE ACCORDING TO WHAT GOD HAS REVEALED IN IT. Those who do not judge by the laws of God are evil doers. S. 5:47 Muhammad Sarwar

      And now how they render Q. 5:66 and 68,

      Had they followed the Laws OF THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS and what was revealed to them from their Lord, they would have received Our bounties from above and below in abundance. Some of them are modest people, but many of them commit the worst sins… (Muhammad), tell the People of the Book, “You have nothing unless you follow THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS and that which (the Quran) God has revealed to you.” Whatever has been revealed to you (Muhammad) from your Lord will only increase their disbelief and rebellion (against you). Do not grieve for the unbelieving people. Muhammad Sarwar

      And if that they took care of the Torah/Old Testament, AND THE BIBLE/NEW TESTAMENT and what was descended to them from their Lord, they would have eaten from above them and from below their feet; from them (is) a nation economizing/moderate , and many from them what they were making/doing became bad/evil/harmful… Say: “You The Book’s people, you are not on a thing, until you keep up the Torah/Old Testament AND THE BIBLE/NEW TESTAMENT, and what was descended to you from your (P) Lord.” And what was descended to you (S/M) from your Lord increases (E) many of them tyranny/arrogance, and disbelief, so do not grieve/sadden on the nation, the disbelieving. Muhammed Ahmad – Samira

      As well as Q. 5:110:

      when God said: “You Jesus Mary’s son, remember My blessing on you and on your mother, when I supported you with the Holy/Sanctimonious Soul/Spirit, you speak/converse (to) the people in the crib/cradle and aged approximately between thirty to fifty years , and when I taught/instructed/informed you The Book , and the wisdom , and the Torah/Old Testament, AND THE NEW TESTAMENT/BIBLE, and when you create as a shape/form (of) the bird/birds with My permission, so you blow in it, so it will be flying/birds, with My permission, and you cure and heal the blind/born blind, and the leper with My permission, and when you bring out the deads with My permission, and when I prevented/stopped Israel’s sons and daughters from you, when you came to them with the evidences, so those who disbelieved from them said: “That that (is) except clear/evident magic/sorcery.” Muhammed Ahmad – Samira

      And here is one on Q. 7:157:

      Those who follow the messenger, the prophet the illiterate/belonging to a nation, whom they find him written at them in the Torah/Old Testament, AND THE NEW TESTAMENT/BIBLE… Muhammed Ahmad – Samira

      DOUBLE OUCH!

      Keep up the great work Williams of using arguments that end up exposing Muhammad as a false prophet. Way to go mate!😉

      • θ says:

        “Sam Shamoun says: his profit confirmed a 2nd century forgery and Gospels which were not written by eyewitnesses as all being the authentic revelation of God which were given as a light and guidance for mankind!”

        Qur’an on Q.28, v.49 does not categorise the remaining Arabic Injil at the hand of Arabians in 7th century as a “better” Scripture equal to both the Torah and Qur’an. Qur’an hints that the Arabic Injil is not inexistent, it existed but incomplete, and perhaps just appeared in a very bad deteriorating condition.
        In Q.28, v.50 Qur’an prophesies that nobody shall seriously respond to bring a better Arabic Injil to the readers publicly since then. Not Christians during the time of Prophet Muhammad, not today’s Christians, not either Sam Shamoun.

        Q.28, v.48. But when the truth came to them from Us, they said, Why was he not given like that which was given to Moses? Did they not disbelieve in that which was given to Moses before? They said, two works of magic supporting each other, and indeed we are in both disbelievers.
        Q.28, v.49. Say, Then bring a scripture from Allah which is more guiding than either of both that I may follow it, if you should be truthful.
        Q.28, v.50. But if they do not respond to you, then know that they only follow their own desires. And who is more astray than one who follows his desire without guidance from Allah ? Indeed, Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.

    • Sam Shamoun says:

      Here is one more:

      Your distortion of Ibn Abbas obliterated here: http://answeringislam.net/Quran/Bible/ibnabbas_bukhari.htm

      And now let’s see what Ibn Abbas is reported to have said about the incorruptibility of the Holy Bible:

      Sahih al-Bukhari records Muhammad’s first cousin and close companion Ibn Abbas, considered one of the greatest Islamic scholars of all time, making the claim that all of God’s revealed Books remain uncorrupted. He is reported to have said that no person is able to change any of the words from God’s Scriptures, but that they could distort their meanings by misinterpreting them:

      Sahih al-Bukhari, Kitaab Al-Tawheed, Baab Qawlu Allah Ta’ala, “Bal Huwa Qur’aanun Majeed, fi lawhin Mahfooth” (i.e. in Sahih al-Bukhari, Book “The Oneness of God”, the Chapter on Surat Al-Borooj (no. 85), Verses 21, 22 saying, “Nay this is a Glorious Qur’an, (Inscribed) in a Tablet Preserved.”) we find in a footnote between 9.642 and 643:

      “They corrupt the word” means “they alter or change its meaning.” Yet no one is able to change even a single word from any Book of God. The meaning is that they interpret the word wrongly. [… and he continues to speak about how the Qur’an is preserved …]

      Here is another English version:

      LV. The words of Allah Almighty, “It is indeed a Glorious Qur’an preserved on a Tablet.” (85:21-22)

      “By the Mount and an Inscribed Book” (52:1-2): Qatada said that “mastur” means “written”. “Yasturun” (68:1) means “they inscribe”, and the Umm al-Kitab (43:4) is the whole of the Qur’an and its source. [He said that] “ma talfizu” (50:18) means: “He does not say anything but that it is written against him.” Ibn ‘Abbas said, “Both good and evil are recorded,” and “yuharrufuna” (4:46) means “they remove”. NO ONE REMOVES THE WORKS[sic] OF ONE OF THE BOOKS OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY, BUT THEY TWIST THEM, INTERPRETING THEM IMPROPERLY. “Dirasatihim: (6:156) means “their recitation” “Wa’iyya” (69:12) is preserving, “ta’iha” (69:12) means to “preserve it”. “This Qur’an has been revealed to me by inspiration that I may warn you,” meaning the people of Makka, “and all whom it reaches”(6:19) meaning this Qur’an, so he is its warner. (Aisha Bewley, Sahih Collection of al-Bukhari, 100. Book of Tawhid (the belief that Allah is One in His Essence, Attributes and Actions); capital and underline emphasis ours)

      Renowned Sunni commentator Ibn Kathir cited al-Bukhari’s statements from Ibn Abbas regarding the incorruptibility of the Holy Scriptures, as well as the view of another Muslim who also believed that God’s Scriptures couldn’t be corrupted:

      Mujahid. Ash-Sha’bi, Al-Hassan, Qatadah and Ar-Rabi’ bin Anas said that,

      means, “They alter (Allah’s Words).”

      Al-Bukhari reported that Ibn ‘Abbas said that the Ayah means they alter and add although none among Allah’s creation CAN REMOVE THE WORDS OF ALLAH FROM HIS BOOKS, THEY ALTER AND DISTORT THEIR APPARENT MEANINGS. Wahb bin Munabbih said, “The Tawrah and Injil REMAIN AS ALLAH REVEALED THEM, AND NO LETTER IN THEM WAS REMOVED. However, the people misguide others by addition and false interpretation, relying on books that they wrote themselves.” Then,

      As for Allah’s books, THEY ARE STILL PRESERVED AND CANNOT BE CHANGED.” Ibn Abi Hatim recorded this statement … (Tafsir Ibn Kathir – Abridged, Volume 2, Parts 3, 4 & 5, Surat Al-Baqarah, Verse 253, to Surat An-Nisa, verse 147 [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, Riyadh, Houston, New York, Lahore; First Edition: March 2000], p. 196; source; bold and capital emphasis ours)

      It would seem pretty clear from the foregoing that the first Muslims (at least two prominent ones) believed that the Scriptures that were revealed before the Quran such as the Torah/Law of Moses and the Injil/Gospel of Jesus remained intact and uncorrupted.

      TRIPLE BAM RIGHT BACK AT YA!

      • θ says:

        “Sam Shamoun says: “They corrupt the word” means “they alter or change its meaning.” Yet no one is able to change even a single word from any Book of God. The meaning is that they interpret the word wrongly. [… and he continues to speak about how the Qur’an is preserved …]”

        If I am not mistaken it is Sam Shamoun who makes a big blunder of ouch by popularising Injil of Yuhannis in Arabic that proves the irrefutable textual alteration between Injil in Arabic and Gospel in Greek. There’s no rebuttal from him since then concerning the textual variants of Injil Yuhannis.
        By so, Sam Shamoun works for Islam to destroy Christianity.

        Please compare 7th century Arabic Injil (which is lost) with the Greek Gospel of John:
        (i) The word “My Father” in Greek Gospel is replaced with “the Lord” in Injil.
        (ii) Passage “Whom I will send” is replaced with “Whom God will send” in Injil.
        (iii) Passage “From the Father” is replaced with “From the Lord’s presence” in Injil.
        (iv) “Even the Spirit” is replaced with “And the Spirit”.
        (v) “Proceedeth from the Father” is replaced with “will have gone forth from the Lord’s presence”.
        (vi) “Not be offended” is replaced with “not be in doubt”.

        Jn 15
        23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
        Jn.16
        1. These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

        Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, A. Guillaume.
        It is extracted from what John [Yuhannis] the apostle set down for them when he wrote the Gospel for them from the Testamant of Jesus Son of Mary: ‘He that hateth me hateth the Lord. And if I had not done in their presence works which none other before me did, they had not had sin: but from now they are puffed up with pride and think that they will overcome me and also the Lord. But the word that is in the Law must be fulfilled, ‘They hated me without a cause’ (ie. without reason). But when the Comforter [Munahhemana] has come whom God will send to you from the Lord’s presence, and the spirit of truth [ruhu`l-qist] which will have gone forth from the Lord’s presence he (shall bear) witness of me and ye also, because ye have been with me from the beginning. I have spoken unto you about this that you should not be in doubt.’
        “The Munahhemana (God bless and preserve him!) in Syriac is Muhammad; in Greek he is the Paraclete [Albaraqlitis ]”

    • θ says:

      “Sam Shamoun says: And since the only Injeel the Christians historically possessed during that time is the books of the NT, Ken ends up being right ONCE AGAIN! This explains why you even have Muslim translators rendering the word Injeel as New Testament or Bible!”

      Injil at the hand of the Arab Christians during the time of Prophet Muhammad and Ibn Ishaq (even until 9th century Ibn Hisham) differs too much from the known Gospels in Greek.

      What makes Ibn Ishaq’s witness all the more important is that the citation of Ibn Ishaq of Arabic Injil is left intact at the hands of Ibn Hisham in the ninth century AD. Ibn Hisham maintains Ibn Ishaq’s testimony concerning variation of John’s Gospel in Arabic, which implies that it met his demands for authenticity.

      Now if any Christian apologist still wants to defend the belief in incorruptible John’s Gospel – on the grounds that it is referred by Ibn Ishaq and Ibn Hisham – or that it contains more explicit statements from Jesus concerning promise and identity of Comforter not found in the Synoptic Gospels, in addition to tens of thousands of variant writings contradictory one and another, then wouldn’t the consistency and the integrity demand that he also reject the flawed insistence on the New Testament being God’s words entirely seeing that it totally opposes the differing portrait of the Father, Christ, Spirit, and Comforter found in the Arabic Injil?

      Hopefully, any Christian apologist will prove to be a man of integrity and do the honest thing by rejecting his stance on incorruptible Gospel. After all, if he is going to consistently apply his own criticisms of the Bible to the Qur’an then he has no choice but to abandon Christianity and stop being a Christian. He just has no other choice.

  11. Sam Shamoun says:

    Williams blocked my comments again!

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