For Muslims and other skeptics: The answer to the questions about injustice and evil in the world: The Incarnation and sufferings of Jesus the Messiah

A Muslim who goes by “Intellect” asked me this question, starting with a quote from Dr. James White:

“Why can’t God take the form of human without ceasing to be God and still remains as God?”
-Dr. James White

Answer
Because he did cease to be God because Jesus forgot the day of judgement and God is All Knowing and does not forget. In addition, the form of a human being is too small for God and has impunities, bacteria, smell etc. and does not befit God.

It is like saying human being must be a pig eating worms in decomposed human excreta. That is insult to man to be a pig and is insult to God to be a man or take the form of a man. God is majestic and does not need to become another being or take the form of another being in order to be able to execute his will.

Thanks.

“Intellect” – that is the amazing thing about the Christian message, that God the Son voluntarily was willing to come and become man / flesh / human and be willing to be subjected to the hardships of this life and was willing to be unjustly treated – they beat Him and crucified Him and killed Him. When we wonder about why evil and why suffering, the greatest answer is that God Himself entered into our sufferings and injustices.

Dorothy Sayers, the Anglican writer, wrote an interesting piece, seeking to answer the issue of why God allowed evil to come into the world.

“For whatever reason God chose to make man as he is – limited and suffering and subject to sorrows and death – He had the honesty and the courage to take His own medicine. Whatever game He is playing with His creation, He has kept His own rules and played fair. He can exact nothing from man that He has not exacted from Himself. He has Himself gone through the whole of human experience, from the trivial irritations of family life and the cramping restrictions of hard work and lack of money to the worst horrors of pain and humiliation and defeat, despair and death. When He was a man, He played the man. He was born in poverty and died in disgrace and thought it well worth while.”

(Dorothy Sayers, Creed or Chaos? New York: Harcourt, Brace and Col, 149, p. 4; cited in Josh McDowell and Don Stewart, Answers to Tough Questions. Here’s Life Publishers, 1980, p. 153-154.

Such a beautiful quote!!

My Iranian friend Kamyar,(who grew up Shiite Muslim and came to know Christ as his savior), who was my second Farsi teacher in 1994, said this to me:

“The two most amazing things about Christianity are:
1. That God, who we were taught in Islam, was far off and aloof, became a man like us, clothed Himself in flesh.”
and
2. That there is a way to be saved from sin and know it and have assurance of it.
“دو چیز خیلی عالی است در مسیحیت
1. که خدا، که ما در اسلام تعلیم یافتیم که خیلی دور از ما می ماند، انسان شد مثل ما شد، و خود را جسم پوشید،
و 2. که یک راهی را وجود دارد برای نجات از گناه و می توانیم آن راه را بدانیم، و اطمینان داشته باشیم

In addition, as to Intellect’s first comment:

The issue of Jesus saying that the Son does not know the day of His second coming has been answered thoroughly – that is part of the Son veiling His glory and “emptying” Himself of the privileges of Deity when He became a man.  (see Philippians 2:5-8)  Surely the Son in heaven now, after the resurrection and ascension to heaven, who is seated at the right hand of the Father, knows the day and hour of His second coming.

About Ken Temple

I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I am a sinner who has been saved by the grace of God alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), through faith alone (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:28; 4:1-16), in Christ alone (John 14:6). But a true faith does not stay alone, it should result in change, fruit, good works, and deeper levels of repentance and hatred of my own sins of selfishness and pride. I am not better than you! I still make mistakes and sin, but the Lord is working on me, conforming me to His character. (Romans 8:28-29; 2 Corinthians 3:16-18) When I do sin, I hate the sin as it is an affront to God, and seek His forgiveness in repentance. (Mark 1:15; 2 Corinthians 7:7-10; Colossians 3:5-16 ) Praise God for His love for sinners (Romans 5:8), shown by the voluntary coming of Christ and His freely laying down His life for us (John 10:18), becoming flesh/human (John 1:1-5; 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8), dying for sins of people from all nations, tribes, and cultures (Revelation 5:9), on the cross, in history, rising from the dead (Romans 10:9-10; Matthew 28, Mark 16:1-8; Luke 24; John 20-21; 1 Corinthians chapter 15). His resurrection from the dead proved that Jesus is the Messiah, the eternal Son of God, the word of God from eternity past; and that He was all the gospels say He was and that He is truth and the life and the way to salvation. (John 14:6)
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9 Responses to For Muslims and other skeptics: The answer to the questions about injustice and evil in the world: The Incarnation and sufferings of Jesus the Messiah

  1. θ says:

    Emotional catharsis is blind.
    Skeptics and Moslems so easily pointed out that ability to do miracle is a proof that Jesus can fake his Kenosis. Kenosis is a myth of the Trinitarian losers to fool those who don’t think.

    We never know if Jesus just faked his agony because if he were divine he must have had ability to change fire to water, sadness to happiness, agony to pleasure.

    After all, better than Jesus, Vishnu of Hinduism reincarnated about 10 times in order to suffer, die, or be killed. One of Vishnu’s avatars was decapitated by a bow and strings eaten by the ants, and his dead body was cut and scattered over some places as the amulets.

  2. Sam Shamoun says:

    I tried to post this,

    Boy, you go from being bad to outright pathetic! First, it is Luke 19 not 18. Second, how convenient of you to ignore what the text itself says about the basis of the tax collector’s salvation:

    ‘Zacchaeus, hurry and come down; for I MUST STAY AT YOUR HOUSE TODAY.’… ‘TODAY SALVATION HAS COME TO THIS HOUSE, because he too is a son of Abraham. FOR THE SON OF MAN CAME TO SEEK OUT AND SAVE THE LOST.’

    Jesus was clearly referring to himself as the SALVATION THAT HAD COME TO ZACCHAEUS’ HOUSE! This is further seen by all the references in Luke-Acts where Jesus is identified as the Savior who was sent to save and forgive:

    “Then an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, ‘Do not be afraid; for see—I am bringing you good news of great joy for all the people: to you is born this day in the city of David A SAVIOR, who is the Messiah, the Lord.” Luke 2:9-11

    “God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and SAVIOR that he might give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.” Acts 5:31

    “All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes IN HIM receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” Acts 10:43

    “When he had removed him, he made David their king. In his testimony about him he said, ‘I have found David, son of Jesse, to be a man after my heart, who will carry out all my wishes.’ Of this man’s posterity God has brought to Israel A SAVIOR, Jesus, as he promised… Let it be known to you therefore, my brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you; by this Jesus everyone who believes is set free from all those sins from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.” Acts 13:22-23, 38-39

    “After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, ‘My brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that I should be the one through whom the Gentiles would hear the message of the good news and become believers. And God, who knows the human heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us; and in cleansing their hearts by faith he has made no distinction between them and us. Now therefore why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe that we will be SAVED through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.’” Acts 15:7-11

    “Then he brought them outside and said, ‘Sirs, what must I do to be SAVED?’ They answered, ‘Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be SAVED, you and your household.’” Acts 16:30-31

    Moreover, since Jesus is the Savior he could therefore save anyone and everyone who would believe in him even before his vicarious death since from God’s perspective Christ’s death for sinners is a done deal, having been foreordained beforehand with no possibility of anything or anyone stopping it from coming to pass:

    “Then he took the twelve aside and said to them, ‘See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written about the Son of Man by the prophets WILL BE ACCOMPLISHED. For he will be handed over to the Gentiles; and he will be mocked and insulted and spat upon. After they have flogged him, they will kill him, and on the third day he will rise again.'” Luke 18:31-33

    “For I tell you, this scripture MUST BE FULFILLED IN ME, ‘And he was counted among the lawless’; and indeed what is written about me is being fulfilled.” Luke 22:37

    “Then he said to them, ‘These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you—that everything written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms MUST BE FULFILLED.’ Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures, and he said to them, ‘Thus it is written, that the Messiah is to suffer and to rise from the dead on the third day, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins is to be proclaimed IN HIS NAME to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.’” Luke 24:44-47

    “You that are Israelites, listen to what I have to say: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with deeds of power, wonders, and signs that God did through him among you, as you yourselves know—this man, handed over to you ACCORDING TO THE DEFINITE PLAN AND FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD, you crucified and killed by the hands of those outside the law. But God raised him up, having freed him from death, because it was impossible for him to be held in its power.” Acts 2:22-24

    “For in this city, in fact, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, gathered together against your holy servant[a] Jesus, whom you anointed, to do WHATEVER YOUR HAND AND YOUR PLAN HAD PREDESTINED TO TAKE PLACE.” Acts 4:27-28

    “Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that was to be yours made careful search and inquiry, inquiring about the person or time THAT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST WITHIN THEM INDICATED WHEN IT TESTIFIED IN ADVANCE TO THE SUFFERINGS DESTINED FOR CHRIST AND THE SUBSEQUENT GLORY. It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in regard to the things that have now been announced to you through those who brought you good news by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look!… You know that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your ancestors, not with perishable things like silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without defect or blemish. HE WAS DESTINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was revealed at the end of the ages for your sake.” 1 Peter 1:10-12, 18-20

    Therefore, seeing how the context of Luke 19 affirms that Jesus himself is the Salvation of God for everyone who chooses to believe in him, this means you have again managed to help us prove that Muhammad was a false prophet for contradicting the testimony of the very biblical texts that you yourself appealed to in a failed attempt to undermine the Christian Gospel! OUCH!

    Over here: https://bloggingtheology.net/2016/08/20/luke-18-today-salvation-has-come-to-this-house

    But Williams has blocked me. Maybe you can post it for me.

  3. θ says:

    (i) There’s no requirement for Zacchaeus to believe in the divinity of Jesus, or in his later human sacrifice by crucifixion, or in his resurrection.
    Jesus just says “today salvation comes to this house” only after Zacchaeus promised by mouth (not yet implemented) to give some generous charity and fourfold restitution to others.
    Lk 19
    8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold. 9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

    The mouth’s confession from a good intention is salvation.
    Rom 10:10
    For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    There are at least two levels of salvation: by mouth and by works.
    A simple precondition to be given the future salvation is each personal work of *looking for him* alive (like how Zacchaeus eagerly worked hard to look for Jesus from a tree of sycamore), not for his death.
    Heb 9:28
    So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

    Likewise, there’s no requirement for Simeon to believe in divinity of Jesus, or in his human sacrifice by crucifixion when he claims seeing a salvation.
    Lk 2:30
    For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

    (ii) Suffering is needed for salvation, not only the belief. Hence, Sola Fide is a nonsense of the terrified enemy.
    Phil 1
    28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. 29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

    How convenient that even apostles of “grace” still seek and enquired their own salvation, there’s no free gift of Sola Fide.
    1Pet 1:10
    Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

    Affliction of suffering yields for men’s salvation.
    2Cor 1:6
    And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer:
    Phil 1:30
    Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.
    Heb 2:10
    In bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

    Somehow one’s prayer is helpful for other’s salvation?
    Phil 1:19
    For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

    Longsuffering in being diligent for a blameless life is salvation.
    2Pet 3
    14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;

    A free-given grace can be turned down.
    Jude 1:4
    For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

  4. Sam Shamoun says:

    Brother Ken,

    Here is an article that should help you out in dealing with echad and elohim: http://www.reformedapologeticsministries.com/2016/01/abraham-as-echad-addressing-muslim.html

  5. θ says:

    “Sam Shamoun says: Here is an article that should help you out in dealing with echad and elohim: http://www.reformedapologeticsministries.com/2016/01/abraham-as-echad-addressing-muslim.html

    Ummatan doesn’t always mean nation, it has various meanings such as legatee (a person who passes a legacy), legacy, and succession or regime.
    (i) A legatee, per Q.16, v.120, Q.7, v.159.
    Q.16, v.120. Indeed, Abraham was a legatee devoutly obedient to Allah, inclining toward truth, and he was not of those who associate others with Allah .
    Q.7, v.159 And among the people of Moses is legatee who guides by truth and with that establishes justice.

    (ii) A legacy, per Q.43, v.22-23.
    Q.43, v.22 Rather, they say, Indeed, we found our fathers upon a legacy, and we are in their footsteps guided.

    (iii) Moment (for the time of succession of legacy, regime, order), per Q.11, v.8, Q.12, v.45.
    Q.12, v.45 But the one who was freed and remembered after a succession said, I will inform you of its interpretation, so send me forth.
    Q.11, v.8 And if We hold back from them the punishment for a succession, they will surely say, What prevents it? Unquestionably, on the Day it comes to them, it will not be averted from them, and they will be enveloped by what they used to ridicule.

  6. θ says:

    Figurative speech of Levi’s preexistence in soul doesn’t make an absurdity of having an alive Levi in Abraham’s loins.
    Heb 7
    9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

    All men were in God as well in all generations.
    Ps 90:1
    A Prayer of Moses the man of God. Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.

  7. θ says:

    Moslems also put the belief on a perfection. Islam teaches that a man can be perfect without having to beguile the world with a cheap unfair trick of incarnation by divine nature. Islamic Jesus is of the created Word, sinless, perfect, and resisting all earthy temptation, he was born and shall die peacefully. Hence, had the Original Sin existed, Islamic Jesus wouldn’t also have got affected by it since he was born of the virgin conception.

    More importantly, Islamic idea of perfection is rational, it does’t include a suicide or human sacrifice. In Christianity, human sacrifice is the highest epitome of all possible perfection of a humanbeing. Irrational equating of evilness with goodness is somehow counted as a perfection for Christians.
    Christianity ethics is based on a perverted definition on perfection.

    Christian theology itself is based on a lie on Jesus’ perfection. Most dishonest Christians tend to use a hypocritical mentality when arguing about a shameless absence of Jesus’ perfection on the story of leaving Lasarus to die in his sickness.
    Worse they argue by using a worse excuse on Lasarus’ abandonment to death: Make sin more so that the grace abound.
    Jesus deliberately commits a sin of not visiting a sick fellow in order to let him die, so that then he may resurrect him.

    Perfection of Islamic Jesus comes from his heavenly Word nature above, not from his corruptible human blood inside.
    Islam also puts a belief in perfection.
    Moslems pray by unclinching or opening up the palm of our hands to indicate that the deliverance is of external. Islamic gesture of praying infers that God is above all.
    Also in prostrating, all ten fingers of hands point straightly (along with ten fingers of feet, knees, forehead) to the same direction of Makkah without deviating.

    Christians pray differently by clinching their palm to indicate a pride of their own spirit (by the existent indwelling of Spirit), to show how their inner spirit itself delivers and solves their own problem. Christian gesture of praying infers that the blood inside is everything.

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