The Mount of Transfiguration, of Internet Trolls, and the Proto-Evangelium of James

This Dividing Line Program by Dr. James White is in 3 sections:

  1.  The Mount of Transfiguration – Matthew 17:1-8 (see also in Mark 9:1-8 and Luke 9:28-36)

Dr. White makes some very interesting points here.  Why Moses and Elijah?  Usually we understand Moses to represent the law and Elijah the prophets.  There is a lot of validity to that.  But also, Dr. White goes back to Exodus 33, where Moses prays to God, “Show me Your glory!”  (Exodus 33:18) and God says, “you cannot see My face, for no one can see My face and live” (Exodus 33:20).  By Moses seeing Jesus here on the Mount of Transfiguration, Moses finally got to see the face of God.  And Elijah had to cover his face when God came in the gentle breeze in 1 Kings 19:12-13.  Elijah also finally got to see the face of God.

“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”  John 1:18  NASB (see John 1:1-5; and 1:14-18)  Jesus revealed who God is, by becoming human, and other humans could then look upon God’s face.

“No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.”  John 1:18, ESV

2.  Dr. White spent some time talking about a certain internet troll.

3.  Dr. White read the Second Century Proto-Evangelium of James, which shows that it was Gnostic tinged and heretical and was later used by the later early church and later by the Roman Catholic Church to dogmatically claim that Jesus “beamed out of” Mary and that she was a perpetual virgin, even in giving birth, that her hymen was not ruptured.

About Ken Temple

I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I am a sinner who has been saved by the grace of God alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), through faith alone (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:28; 4:1-16), in Christ alone (John 14:6). But a true faith does not stay alone, it should result in change, fruit, good works, and deeper levels of repentance and hatred of my own sins of selfishness and pride. I am not better than you! I still make mistakes and sin, but the Lord is working on me, conforming me to His character. (Romans 8:28-29; 2 Corinthians 3:16-18) When I do sin, I hate the sin as it is an affront to God, and seek His forgiveness in repentance. (Mark 1:15; 2 Corinthians 7:7-10; Colossians 3:5-16 ) Praise God for His love for sinners (Romans 5:8), shown by the voluntary coming of Christ and His freely laying down His life for us (John 10:18), becoming flesh/human (John 1:1-5; 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8), dying for sins of people from all nations, tribes, and cultures (Revelation 5:9), on the cross, in history, rising from the dead (Romans 10:9-10; Matthew 28, Mark 16:1-8; Luke 24; John 20-21; 1 Corinthians chapter 15). His resurrection from the dead proved that Jesus is the Messiah, the eternal Son of God, the word of God from eternity past; and that He was all the gospels say He was and that He is truth and the life and the way to salvation. (John 14:6)
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10 Responses to The Mount of Transfiguration, of Internet Trolls, and the Proto-Evangelium of James

  1. Sam Shamoun says:

    Brother Ken,

    I left a comment on Williams’ blog regarding Unitarian’s response to Richard’s post on Numbers 23:19, which Williams deleted. Is Unitarian is another pseudo-intellect who thinks he knows logic and philosophy. Maybe you can challenge him on his skewed logic.

    Please provide a reference from either the Holy Bible or Muhammad’s teachings in the Quran or ahadith that say that a man has to necessarily to forget, change his mind, make mistakes, otherwise he cannot be human. This is true of man AFTER THE FALL, but you need to prove that this is how God designed man to be initially, before sin and corruption entered the world. In other words, please provide evidence for your assertion that God designed man to necessarily forget and change his mind from the very beginning of creation.

    Moreover, since neither the Holy Bible nor the words of Muhammad teach that man in his glorified state will ever forget or change his mind, but will have attained moral and physical perfection, doesn’t this mean per your skewed logic that man will cease to be truly human once he attains that state or condition? Doesn’t this expose how utterly fallacious your premise truly is since this shows that the ideal state of man is not to be a forgetful, double-minded creature, but rather man as God intended man to be is one who is consistent and morally perfect?

    Therefore, stop asserting and start proving your case.

    • Sam Shamoun says:

      Moreover Ken, ask unitarian to back up the following assertion:

      1- A divine being cannot lie

      2- A divine being cannot change his mind because of error once he has made his decision

      Challenge him to show a single statement from the Quran which says that a divine being cannot lie or cannot change his mind due to error.

      Don’t get me wrong. I affirm both these points since they are biblical truths that God revealed. What I am questioning is whether Muhammad taught this. Therefore, instead of allowing this thief to steal from our worldview and claim it for Islam, and then turn around and use these revealed Christian truths against us, challenge him to prove these two assertions from the explicit teachings of his false prophet.

  2. θ says:

    “Madmanna says: and God says, “you cannot see My face, for no one can see My face and live” (Exodus 33:20). …Jesus revealed who God is, by becoming human, and other humans could then look upon God’s face.”

    God covered his face with his hands to be concealed as much as how Jesus’ human flesh, skin, skull and cheeks masked the Son’s face underneath.
    Exod 33
    22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

  3. θ says:

    “Sam Shamoun says: What I am questioning is whether Muhammad taught this. Therefore, instead of allowing this thief to steal from our worldview and claim it for Islam, and then turn around and use these revealed Christian truths against us”

    Allah never lies.
    Q.38, v.84. He said, Thus the truth is and the truth I say.

    Allah never changes His mind.
    Q.68, v.45 And I do bear with them, surely My plan is immutable.

  4. Ken Temple says:

    Allah deceives.
    Surah 3:54

    وَمَكَرُوا وَمَكَرَ اللَّهُ ۖ وَاللَّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ

    And they (the disbelievers) deceived / schemed, and Allah schemed / deceived; and Allah is the best of schemers / deceivers.

  5. θ says:

    “Ken Temple says:Surah 3:54 وَمَكَرُوا وَمَكَرَ اللَّهُ ۖ وَاللَّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ And they (the disbelievers) deceived / schemed, and Allah schemed / deceived; and Allah is the best of schemers / deceivers.”

    Since when have the good disciples turned to be disbelievers?
    Makara means setting a strategy beforehand. For instance, before creating Adam the angels of heaven were made known by Allah that a new creation with superior knowledge shall be created to rule the earth. In Q.3, v.54 the believing disciples set a comprehensive strategy (Makara) to help, assist, serve, even protect Jesus on the earth. But eventually, Allah’s protection is more potent certainly.

    Context of Q.3, v.52-54 is the story of Jesus and good disciples, not about the infidels at all. The faith of good disciples is made as example for Moslems for their loyal services, assists, helps and strategy to keep Jesus with them with obedience, against other sects of Jews who tried to harm Jesus and apostatised from him:
    Q.5, v.111. And behold, I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger: they said, We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
    Q.61, v.14. O ye who believe, be ye helpers of God, as said Jesus the son of Mary to the disciples: Who will be my helpers to God? The disciples said, We are God’s helpers. And a faction of the children of Israel believed and a faction disbelieved. So We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they became dominant.

    (i) During the event of sending the foods from heaven (John 6), only a dosen disciples faithfully stands by Jesus after other disciples just went away from him for not bearing anymore the teaching in parable (i.e. eating the flesh).
    (ii) Afterward the disciples arranged a strategy to go to Jerusalem for the pilgrimage.
    (iii) In Jerusalem, the disciples arranged a successful plan to bring Jesus on an ass into the temple by chanting “Hosanna” (John 12:15).
    (iv) During the Last Supper (John 16-17), the disciples accepted the New Covenant under the Melchisedek order (symbolised by bread and wine) rather than the Levite order (symbolised by the blood). The New Covenant includes the solemn acceptance of conforming the another Comforter, i.e. Prophet Muhammad.
    (v) After the Last Supper, the disciples arranged a proper security measure of body-guarding Jesus by keeping the swords to protect him (John 18). Simon Peter cuts of the ear of Malchus in John 18:10.

    • Ken Temple says:

      Every translation I have seen says that it was the unbelievers who schemed/deceived.
      The word Makr مکر has at it’s root, deception, guile. It is a negative term.

      In your religion, Allah actually does the guile and deception, whereas in Christianity, God allows people under His sovereignty to be deceived, but the deception is done by evil spirits or evil men. (as in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 and 1 Kings 22:22)

      You did not make a good case at all.

      Surah 3:54 –
      FARSI
      و (یهود و دشمنان مسیح برای کشتن او) نقشه کشیدند، و خدا چاره جوئی کرد(و مکر و نقشه آنان را نابود نمود). و خداوند بهترین چاره جویان است.

      PICKTHALL
      And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers.

      YUSUF ALI
      And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.

      SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
      And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners.

      • θ says:

        “Ken Temple says: Every translation I have seen says that it was the unbelievers who schemed/deceived. The word Makr مکر has at it’s root, deception, guile. It is a negative term.”

        The Arabic words Makirin, Makara, and Makaru refer to a hidden intention of heart or inner plot of mind, not to any audible word of tongue whatsoever.
        Jami` at-Tirmidhi, Vol. 4, Book 7, Hadith 2171
        Umm Salamah narrated that the Prophet mentioned the army that the earth would swallow, so Umm Salamah said: Perhaps there are those among them who are averse to it. He said: They will be resurrected on their intentions (الْمُكْرَهَ).

        Jami` at-Tirmidhi, Vol. 4, Book 1, Hadith 1941
        Abu Bakr As-Siddiq narrated that the Messenger of Allah said: Cursed are those who harm a believer, or plot to do so (مَكَرَ بِهِ ).

        “Ken Temple says: in Christianity, God allows people under His sovereignty to be deceived, but the deception is done by evil spirits or evil men. (as in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 and 1 Kings 22:22)”

        Not so satisfying, even worse it is additional folly. It is a great sin to partake the lies of liars. How could Christians believe that their gods take a sinful role in a lie of the liars?
        In Islam, Allah is the holy One, and never takes any part whatsoever in the lies out of mouth of the created mortals.
        Eph 5
        6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
        1Tim 5:22
        Neither be partaker of other men’s sins: keep thyself pure.

        Moreover, the Bible depicted how Jesus intentionally lied without using evil spirits.
        Is Jesus an evil spirit when telling a lie “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth” in Jn 11:11 before then he corrects himself “Lazarus is dead” in Jn 11:14?
        Is Jesus an evil man who uses parables to prevent Jews from repenting in Mk 4:12?

  6. Ken Temple says:

    Your other comments don’t make sense.

    But one thing is clear by you quoting Surah 3:52-55; and 61:14 and 5:111 – it proves that the disciples of Jesus became the dominant, manifest, victorious ones – and they believed Jesus died on the cross, rose from the dead, was God int he flesh, the Son of God, and the eternal Son and eternal Word, which lead to the doctrine of the Trinity.

    So your own Qur’an refutes the religion of Islam, which claims that the Jewish monotheists became small and lost and Ebionites and faded out.

    Since those that believed in the Deity of Christ and the Trinity are the dominant ones, your own Qur’an refutes all the other doctrines that Islam tries to come against in Christianity.

    • θ says:

      “Ken Temple says: But one thing is clear by you quoting Surah 3:52-55; and 61:14 and 5:111 – it proves that the disciples of Jesus became the dominant, manifest, victorious ones – and they believed Jesus died on the cross, rose from the dead, was God int he flesh, the Son of God, and the eternal Son and eternal Word, which lead to the doctrine of the Trinity. So your own Qur’an refutes the religion of Islam, which claims that the Jewish monotheists became small and lost and Ebionites and faded out.”

      Ken, you don’t read it carefully. Whom Qur’an specifically promises of safety, survival and domination is for certain good disciples whom Jesus appointed out of 70 preachers, they are not those 12 Biblical disciples, nor overall Ebionites after them.

      After all, the twelve disciples and Paul were killed by Non-Christians, hence they are excluded from being those good disciples Qur’an referred to.
      Additionally, the Rabbinical Jews who rejected Jesus during the time of the disciples were also killed by the Roman armies during the Jews-Roman wars.

      Q.61, v.14. O ye who believe, be ye helpers of God, as said Jesus the son of Mary to the disciples: Who will be my helpers to God? The disciples said, We are God’s helpers. And a faction of the children of Israel believed and a faction disbelieved. So We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they became dominant.
      Parallel:
      Lk 10:19
      Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
      Mk 12:36
      For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

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