Debate: Abdullah Kunde vs. James White – “Peace with God”

I like Abdullah Kunde, he is a very respectful Muslim and a good example of how to do debate.  I hope other Muslims would learn from his manners and Adab ادب .

Unfortunately, the sound quality on Kunde’s part is not very good; as he missed his plane and had to do the debate by Skype.

About Ken Temple

I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I am a sinner who has been saved by the grace of God alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), through faith alone (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:28; 4:1-16), in Christ alone (John 14:6). But a true faith does not stay alone, it should result in change, fruit, good works, and deeper levels of repentance and hatred of my own sins of selfishness and pride. I am not better than you! I still make mistakes and sin, but the Lord is working on me, conforming me to His character. (Romans 8:28-29; 2 Corinthians 3:16-18) When I do sin, I hate the sin as it is an affront to God, and seek His forgiveness in repentance. (Mark 1:15; 2 Corinthians 7:7-10; Colossians 3:5-16 ) Praise God for His love for sinners (Romans 5:8), shown by the voluntary coming of Christ and His freely laying down His life for us (John 10:18), becoming flesh/human (John 1:1-5; 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8), dying for sins of people from all nations, tribes, and cultures (Revelation 5:9), on the cross, in history, rising from the dead (Romans 10:9-10; Matthew 28, Mark 16:1-8; Luke 24; John 20-21; 1 Corinthians chapter 15). His resurrection from the dead proved that Jesus is the Messiah, the eternal Son of God, the word of God from eternity past; and that He was all the gospels say He was and that He is truth and the life and the way to salvation. (John 14:6)
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6 Responses to Debate: Abdullah Kunde vs. James White – “Peace with God”

  1. Ken Temple says:

    You have some good information there in those 2 articles. skimmed over fast; need to go back over them slower.

    I guess those Muslims would disagree on the definition of what a mediator is. Abdullah Kunde and other Muslims don’t see Muhammad’s role as the final prophet and leader of a state government as the same as a mediator in the way Jesus is our mediator between God and man.

    • The problem with your definition is that THIS IS NOT how the Quran defines Muhammad’s role as mediator. If you look over the info you will see no one’s faith will be accepted unless and until that perfectly submit to Muhammad, love him more than anything and anyone, loving him just as much as Allah, coming to him and asking him to pray for their forgiveness so that Allah would then forgive him, and also needing to pray for and to him everyday, otherwise their prayers will become null and void.

      • Ken Temple says:

        I get that the Qur’an says that one must submit and obey the prophet Muhammad, etc. – you showed that . . . and very good . . .

        but how to those Muslims (like Abdullah Kunde and others) understand the concept of “mediator”? Do they see a difference between Muhammad’s role as sort of law-giver, ruler, leader of a state government (and the whole Caliphate system after he died) and between a mediator?

        What do you think of Yasir Qadhi’s lecture on the issues of can the dead hear the prayers of Muslims?

        I pointed to David Wood’s article/video at Paul Williams blog, and that fact that in their prayers, they do at least one time address directly to “O prophet” , etc. and they are constantly praying for Allah’s blessing on him millions of times, but they were insistent that little thing is nothing and that the dead cannot hear, etc. (but Allah causes them to hear if he wants to)

        “Intellect” even claims that to die means “to cease to exist” and even if souls/spirits continue in the grave, that does not mean they “exist”. His argumentation was strange to me. He claimed that the human being ceases to exist, but the spirit / soul can continue. (don’t know if you saw that exchange)

      • Ken, it’s more than submitting to Muhammad. If you read the articles carefully, you will see it is about Muhammad needing to intercede and pray for them in order for them to even be forgiven. Note carefully:

        We sent no messenger save that he should be obeyed by Allah’s leave. And if, when they had wronged themselves, THEY HAD BUT COME UNTO THEE and asked forgiveness of Allah, AND ASKED FORGIVENESS OF THE MESSENGER, they would have found Allah Forgiving, Merciful. S. 4:64 Pickthall

        Of their goods, take alms, THAT SO THOU MIGHTEST PURIFY AND SANCTIFY THEM; and pray on their behalf. VERILY THY PRAYERS ARE A SOURCE OF SECURITY FOR THEM : And God is One Who heareth and knoweth. S. 9:103 Y. Ali

        The true believers are ONLY those, who believe in (the Oneness of) Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad), and when they are with him on some common matter, they go not away until they have asked HIS permission. Verily! Those who ask YOUR permission, those are they who (really) believe in Allah and His Messenger. So if they ask your permission for some affairs of theirs, give permission to whom you will of them, AND ASK ALLAH FOR THEIR FORGIVENESS. Truly, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. S. 24:62 Hilali-Khan

        Why do Muslims need to come to Muhammad and have him pray for them if they can go directly to Allah?

        Moreover, pay attention to 9:103 which says that it is Muhammad who purifies and sanctifies the Muslims and whose prayer becomes a source of security for them. Muhammad purifies and sanctifies people even though he himself was a wicked impure sinner?

        Meditate on these and get back to me.

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