Dr. White on Michael Brown’s podcast, with 2nd hour discussion with Robert Spencer

Posted on June 22, 2017 by Ken Temple

 

see at Dr. Brown’s web-site.

About Ken Temple

I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I am a sinner who has been saved by the grace of God alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), through faith alone (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:28; 4:1-16), in Christ alone (John 14:6). But a true faith does not stay alone, it should result in change, fruit, good works, and deeper levels of repentance and hatred of my own sins of selfishness and pride. I am not better than you! I still make mistakes and sin, but the Lord is working on me, conforming me to His character. (Romans 8:28-29; 2 Corinthians 3:16-18) When I do sin, I hate the sin as it is an affront to God, and seek His forgiveness in repentance. (Mark 1:15; 2 Corinthians 7:7-10; Colossians 3:5-16 ) Praise God for His love for sinners (Romans 5:8), shown by the voluntary coming of Christ and His freely laying down His life for us (John 10:18), becoming flesh/human (John 1:1-5; 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8), dying for sins of people from all nations, tribes, and cultures (Revelation 5:9), on the cross, in history, rising from the dead (Romans 10:9-10; Matthew 28, Mark 16:1-8; Luke 24; John 20-21; 1 Corinthians chapter 15). His resurrection from the dead proved that Jesus is the Messiah, the eternal Son of God, the word of God from eternity past; and that He was all the gospels say He was and that He is truth and the life and the way to salvation. (John 14:6)
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15 Responses to Dr. White on Michael Brown’s podcast, with 2nd hour discussion with Robert Spencer

  1. Pingback: Answering Sam Shamoun’s questions on 1 John & 2 John regarding the White/Qadhi dialogue | Apologetics and Agape

  2. mrandmrswhite says:
    June 28, 2017 at 9:22 pm

    May I ask why you have deleted my comment. Every word of it was true. I am an Evangelical Christian living in Northern Ireland, and you Sir have treated my comment with contempt. Why can you not handle the truth? We have our own blog and we have already posted about the James White/Yasir Qadhi controversy, and my comment on your blog was basically an edited version of our post. Our blog address is http://thetruthshallsetyoufreeblog.wordpress.com

    • Ken Temple says:
      June 30, 2017 at 9:31 pm

      I always thought this scene from “Monty Python and the Holy Grail” was funny. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIlW-ovx0Y

      I have never seen the other film, “the life of Brian” – you are right in that I heard it was blasphemous and therefore never saw it.

      Even the Holy Grail movie had a few things that were inappropriate, IMO. But IMO, there are some really funny scenes from the Holy Grail. (never saw it when it first came out; only many years later and now I only re-watch the funny scenes that are not blasphemous or inappropriate, like above on You Tube.)

      It is possible Dr. White is referring to the same kind of funny scenes that I enjoy from the Holy Grail movie, and that like me, was not approving of the bad stuff or the Life of Brian, even though Dr. Qadhi may have been quoting from that movie. ( I don’t know; I have never seen it)
      How do you know that is what it is from if you never watched it ?

      sorry for deleting your comment; thanks for coming back to make another comment and I read your article at your web-site.

      I am curious, what kind of Evangelical are you?

      Are you a King James Only-ist Fundamentalist or are you a Reformed Baptist or other kind of Baptist or other kind of Evangelical? (Presbyterian, Lutheran, Bible church – dispensationist, etc. ?) from some of the other articles you have up, I gather that you are not Charismatic or Pentecostal.

      I have been busy traveling and teaching in another country, so that is why the delay and I deleted it because I did not have time to respond.

      but thanks for not giving up.

      I hope you will read my other articles on this issue and see the balance of the whole thing and it was not an “ecumenical dialogue” but an “apologetic dialogue”.

      see here:
      https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2017/06/19/2-john-9-11-in-light-of-the-controversy-over-dr-whites-outreach-to-muslims/

      and here:
      https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2017/06/09/dr-white-has-been-judged-unfairly/

      See my questions that I am hoping for in a future encounter with Dr. Qadhi, (but alas, the terrible witness & response of Christians (like the anger filled man – Sam Shamoun, Brannon Howse, Usama Dakdok, etc.) has probably drove Dr. Qadhi and other Muslims away from further dialogue and debate; that is sad) and discussion earlier right after the dialogue:
      https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2017/01/26/muslim-christian-dialogue-dr-james-white-and-dr-yasir-qadhi/

      I see Muslims as unreached people that need the gospel and we need to be more involved in reaching out to them with the balance of sound doctrine, wisdom, and love and respect. 1 Peter 3:15; Ephesians 4:15 – that is not “lovey duvey”.

      • mrandmrswhite says:
        July 1, 2017 at 7:20 pm

        My husband and I are Bible-believing Christians. We are neither Calvinist nor Arminian because we see verses in the Bible to support both i.e truth runs along two parallel lines. However we are more Calvinist than Arminian. We use the KJV but we also refer to other versions such as NASB and ESV which are reasonably reliable. We are not extreme KJV-only believers but we do believe that it should be the version of choice for public worship because it is difficult to follow the reading if the preacher uses another version. We have not seen the blasphemous film called “The Life of Brian” but we know it is blasphemous because of the public outcry against it and by reading reviews about it. One does not need to eat a whole apple to know it is rotten! Your defence of James White is admirable but cuts no ice with us and we have not formed our opinion about James White by listening to Brannon Howse, Sam Shamoun or anyone else. God has given us spiritual discernment and we know when something is wrong or unwise. By the way, when Yasir Qadhi let the cat out of the bag and revealed that he and James White enjoy watching Monty Python, James White said “shush.” He obviously didn’t expect that fact to be made public because he knows that the Monty Python team are filthy, vulgar and, in the case of “The Life of Brian,” blasphemers. Our concerns about James White pre-date the present controversy. We have posted about him before on our blog. He has defended Apologia Church with its “beer and tattoo” fundraiser. He has a tattoo himself. We believe that Apologia church is worldly and compromised and James White is tainted by his association with, and defence of, them. We advocate total abstinence from alcohol for Christians and are totally opposed to tattoos. Dr. Peter Masters of London’s Metropolitan church also advocates total abstinence from alcohol for Christians. Also James White used the words “RIP” on his twitter some time ago following the death of a sportsman. We believed that it was unwise for him to use “RIP” after the death of anyone, believer or unbeliever because “RIP” is frequently used by Roman Catholics, and I should know because I am a former RC. I phoned Alpha and Omega Ministries from Northern Ireland to let them know of our disquiet about “RIP” and Rich Pierce told me I was “straining at a knat……” then he terminated the conversation! James White spoke last year at Kensington Temple in London and it is a worldly, doctrinally unsound church. Dr. White does not practice Biblical separation from error. He was wrong, desperately wrong to invite Yasir Qadhi to that Evangelical Church and practically bow and scrape before him. He was equally wrong to go to that Mosque the following day. Here is what the Muslim President of Turkey said about mosques, “The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers…” Recep Erdogan quote. Stop defending James White!

        [See my answer several boxes below]

    • Ken Temple says:
      June 30, 2017 at 9:47 pm

      This was also very good:

      the comment by

      Jonathan Cousar
      (to) DM Casey, I don’t understand why you guys keep bringing up stories of Christians who were persecuted by Muslims as a reason why James White (or presumably anybody else) shouldn’t witness to Muslims. It’s a non-sequitur.

      Brannon says Muslims are dangerous for America, therefore James White shouldn’t witness to them. He says Yasir Qadhi is a radical member of the Muslim Brotherhood. If that’s true, I say, Praise God that someone got to witness to him!! And to members of his mosque as well! By invitation!! How awesome is that!

      My wife Sheena is from Pakistan and one day while we were engaged and she was still there, a woman at her work slipped some poison into her tea. She couldn’t stand my wife’s gentle witnessing to her co-workers in the office. The office boy (that’s what they called him) warned my wife that day that the woman had put poison in her tea and told her not to drink it.

      My wife then took the office boy with her and she went over to the woman and said, “I know you put poison in my tea.” The woman said, “So what?” She didn’t even try to deny it! Then my wife said, “I just want you to know I forgive you and I love you and I will not do anything to retaliate against you.” She then added, “I want you to know that you can’t do anything to me that God doesn’t allow. And if God does allow it, then I’m very happy to take it, whatever it is.”

      When my wife got home that night, she called and told me what happened. We talked about it for a while and in that moment, the Holy Spirit filled me with great boldness and I told her I thought the ‘office boy’ and maybe some other people in the office were watching her and that she had to go back the next day to show them that a child of the one true God was not afraid of the children of a false god. I told her that just the fact she would dare to go back would speak volumes to them and would be an awesome witness to truth of Christianity and to her rock-solid faith in the supremacy of the Christian God.

      And I’m sorry to say, but just like Peter losing faith while he was walking on the water, the minute she left for work the next day, I lost my faith and began wondering if I had done something terribly irresponsible by putting my then-fiance in harm’s way! And I worried the whole night (New York time) until she got home!

      When I told her I thought she should go back to work the next day, she said, “I’m SO GLAD you said that!” Because she very much wanted to go back into that dangerous office to be a witness. And she was glad her soon-to-be husband wasn’t afraid. (At least I wasn’t for the few minutes I was talking to her on Skype that night)! She wanted to show her co-workers that she FORGAVE the woman who did this to her and that she loved her enough to risk her life to go back as a witness for Christ.

      That next day at the office, the woman had arranged for someone to plant an IED on the rickshaw she always took home in the afternoons. The IED exploded just as my wife was walking out to the rickshaw and she came within just a few yards of being killed by it. If it had gone off just 20 seconds later, she would have been killed.

      And no one stands more squarely behind James White than my wife. She has come face-to-face with the dangers posed by many Muslims and came very close to dying for it. And she walked into that situation that day knowing full well that something like that could very possibly happen. She, nor I, can even begin to comprehend you guys for saying we shouldn’t reach out with gentleness and respect to Muslims (as we’re told to do in II Timothy 3:15-16) so that we may share the Gospel with them.

      It was my wife’s gentle and respectful way of sharing small parts of the Gospel each day with her Muslim co-workers that led to the office boy being saved, as he noted the giant difference between how a Christian responds to their enemies and how Muslims respond to their enemies. Watching her every day for the three months she worked there, show love and respect for her co-workers just got to his heart. And when he asked her why she was so kind to them, and she told him it was because Jesus taught us to love our enemies, he was crushed with the awesome love of the Christian God and he said he knew at that moment that the Christian God was the One True God!

      Now, I wonder who Muslims will see that genuine Christian love from? People like James White? Or people like Brannon Howse?

      Brannon says Islam poses a danger to America. My wife and I both agree with that. But how in the world does that then become a reason for not talking to and witnessing to Muslims!? The Christian response to whatever Islamic threat there may be – is to reach out and share Christ with them. We have no reason to be afraid. And whatever happens to America isn’t really our concern. Our top concern should be how we can bring the knowledge of Christ and the Gospel to them. So what if that puts us in danger.

      But some people are putting the welfare of America above what our real concern as Christians should be. I don’t remember Jesus or Paul or anyone in the Bible teaching us that our top priority as Christians is to save our country from any and all threats. Nothing in the Bible teaches us to, ‘put our country first and worry about evangelism later.’

      The irony is, if we had our Biblical priorities straight, the country would take care of itself.

      How wonderful is it that James White, over time, and through his integrity and faithful witness, has been able to develop such solid friendships and relationships with Muslims, that they have invited him into their mosques to share the Gospel!!

      I don’t know if Yasir Qadhi is part of the Muslim Brotherhood as Brannon alleges, but if he is PRAISE GOD!!! The Gospel has been shared with him and his followers!! How awesome is that! That’s something a genuine thinking Christian could only celebrate – and would never criticize.

      At Phil Johnson’s facebook page.

  3. Ken Temple says:
    June 30, 2017 at 10:07 pm

    this is very good also:

  4. Ken Temple says:
    July 1, 2017 at 7:56 pm

    Mr. and Mrs. White:
    Thanks for your comment. I won’t stop defending Dr. White, because I just don’t see the problem with that Tuesday evening and Wed. evening Apologetic dialogue where they both were given open opportunity to explain their doctrines, and Dr. White’s part – the gospel was preached, the Deity of Christ, the Trinity, original sin, the cross, atonement, resurrection, salvation by grace alone through faith alone – were explained clearly by Dr. White.

    Since the main way I have reached out to Muslims is through hospitality in home meetings (most of the time they are not churches, but evangelistic outreach; but some are house church meetings, where Muslims may also come, seeking to know or be open about Christianity. (but they are not allowed to preach or teach) I cannot understand the extreme position that you and others have. 2 John 9-11 cannot mean “don’t do outreach to unreached peoples”; the meaning is don’t let known false teachers teach in the church, obviously.

    Since the Tuesday meeting was not a worship service, not a prayer meetings, etc. was planned and done by the elders of that church as an apologetic dialogue; it was not an ecumenical kind of liberal thing, etc. – it was good and I see no problem with that.

    Getting drunk is sin (Ephesians 5:18); but to say total abstinence is required in order to be a good Christian is wrong and can be legalistic. Having a glass of wine with a meal every now and then or at a wedding is not a problem for me; but I agree that people need to be careful and not make others stumble (Romans 14; I Corinthians 8). I don’t understand Christians who flaunt their “freedom”. I don’t like Tatoos, but I cannot really condemn others for having a small one. I do not understand modern people who have their whole arms (or faces, etc.) covered in black tatoos – it is weird to me. Some people got those tatoos before they became Christians, and I have met people that told me they regretted them, but that they got them before God converted them.

    But, I am impressed with Apologia church and it’s outreach to totally unreached and unchurched type people. (some are former drug addicts and former prostitutes, and former very worldly people, who now believe like Jeff Durban, if they do, that is a powerful testimony.) Dr. White spent a good amount of time responding and refuting the charged that it was a “beer and tatoo” fundraiser.

    Sorry, but I cannot agree with you.

    We are to be separated from sin and the world system’s thinking, but if we are going to reach people, evangelism includes hospitality and one of the best ways to reach Muslims, especially in their own country, is through hospitality. In fact in Muslim countries, it is the only way to reach out – hospitality – small one on one or small group meetings where we get to share the gospel and explain what Christians believe.

    I amazed at how weak many Christians seem in their faith that they cannot listen to the other side when we do witnessing – understanding atheism, Mormonism, Roman Catholicism, Islam, etc. – all false systems of belief – but of course we should be equipped so we can refute their doctrines; but it seems many are afraid of even hearing the other side explain themselves. They (like Brannon Howse, Sam Shamoun, and many others who support them, seem to be like the liberal snowflakes, who cannot even handle others saying or mentioning what they believe.

  5. Ken Temple says:
    July 1, 2017 at 8:55 pm

    It would take a while to look at all the above links, read them and listen to the shows; but I encourage you to give them a chance.

  6. Kiely Peter says:
    July 4, 2017 at 1:08 pm

    If you had even bothered to watch the Film “The Life of Brian” then you will know very well that the film did not make fun of Christ’s crucifixion at all, in fact Christ is hardly mentioned at all and there is no “blasphemy”. It in fact shows some very moral things, such as the importance of humanity, being a human individual and making your own mind up. Crucifixion was a form of execution and torture which was used long before and long after Christ was crucified, if that even did happen, there is no evidence that it did. If you are going to comment about something like that, then actually watch it and learn about it before you do so. By merely believing certain things you’ve read, rather than actually LOOKING at the whole picture, then your showing that you can’t really make your mind up either. Oh and by the way, don’t bother with Susan Anne White, she is a so-called Politician in Northern Ireland who is continuously laughed at cos of her ridiculous nonsense. Just saying.

    • Ken Temple says:
      July 5, 2017 at 3:18 pm

      James D. G. Dunn, a well known moderate Biblical scholar, asserts that these “two facts (the baptism and crucifixion of Jesus) in the life of Jesus command almost universal assent” and “rank so high on the ‘almost impossible to doubt or deny’ scale of historical facts” that they are often the starting points for the study of the historical Jesus. Jesus Remembered, page 339.

      Bart Ehrman (an unbeliever) states that the crucifixion of Jesus on the orders of Pontius Pilate is the most certain element about him. A Brief Introduction to the New Testament, p. 136

      John Dominic Crossan (liberal scholar, unbeliever) states that the crucifixion of Jesus is as certain as any historical fact can be. Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography, p. 145. Crossan sides Tacitus and Josephus (even minus the apparent glosses) as ancient witnesses to the historicity of the crucifixion of Jesus.

      Paul Eddy and Gregory Boyd state that it is now “firmly established” that there is non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus. The Jesus Legend, p. 127.

      Christopher M. Tuckett, a NT scholar, states that, although the exact reasons for the death of Jesus are hard to determine, one of the indisputable facts about him is that he was crucified. The Cambridge Companion to Jesus, p. 136.

      Geza Vermes, another liberal Jewish scholar also views the crucifixion as a historical event. A Century of Theological and Religious Studies in Britian, p. 125-126

      Thanks for the heads up about who Mrs. White is.

  7. mrandmrswhite says:
    July 5, 2017 at 10:10 pm

    Kiely Peter is a frequent commenter on our blog. I’m surprised you accept his personal ad hominen attack on me as accurate. I am not a politician per se although I have been a candidate in four recent elections. In my election manifesto(s) I called for the restoration of the death penalty for murder, and for the re-criminalisation of homosexual activity and for the jailing of adulterers and for a total ban on abortion and for an end to Islamic mosque-building and mosque extensions and many other policies. My views are Biblical and most people would have shared my views a few short years ago. By the way, adultery is still illegal in 21 American states and finally, the film “The Life of Brian” is blasphemous, irrespective of the views of Kiely Peter.

    My (Ken Temple) response: July 7, 2017

    I am putting my comments here because I set the commment boxes to close after 14 days; and that has expired. I have returned from overseas ministry and now have some time to respond.

    I did not mean to accept everything he (Peter Kiely) said about you; I meant only that I didn’t know about your political attempts; and that is his opinion. “thanks for the heads up” meant thanks for the info about your political attempts.

    I am agreed with you about most of the laws; especially the death penalty for first degree murder and anti-abortion (an abortion provider should be punished, not the mother; compassion and Evangelical counseling for the mother); but penalties being actually enforced for other things would not be do-able unless there was a great spiritual revival in western civilization of true conversions and whole families and whole communities are truly converted and people vote for Christian social values.

    I think we do have to admit that the homosexuals and trans-genders – the political agenda is partly driven by bitterness and revenge for the way some have unfairly treated, bullied, made fun of, in the past, rather than true Christian compassion on the person struggling and yet clear calls for repentance from the sin.

    Jesus’ model of how He dealt with adultery seems to be a great thing also – John 8:1-11, even thought not in earliest Greek manuscripts – maybe Papias’ early allusion to it is an indication that it is early.

    Are you both Irish or Americans living in Northern Ireland?

    I still say Dr. White’s example of outreach to the Muslim community was a great model, given that he clearly presented the gospel both before, during, and after the events; if anyone who knows his ministry can testify. I would agree that western countries have to find a way to make Muslims when in the west learn to have a complete seperation between their religion and changing government laws – attempts to get Sharia law in local areas should be swiftly put down because of that principle.

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