Tertullian (~200): Children should not be baptized until they can ask for salvation themselves

Chris Whisonant

And so, according to the circumstances and disposition, and even age, of each individual, the delay of baptism is preferable; principally, however, in the case of little children. For why is it necessary — if (baptism itself) is not so necessary — that the sponsors likewise should be thrust into danger? Who both themselves, by reason of mortality, may fail to fulfil their promises, and may be disappointed by the development of an evil disposition, in those for whom they stood? The Lord does indeed say, Forbid them not to come unto me. Let them come, then, while they are growing up; let them come while they are learning, while they are learning whither to come; let them become Christians when they have become able to know Christ. Why does the innocent period of life hasten to the remission of sins? More caution will be exercised in worldly matters:…

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About Ken Temple

I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I am a sinner who has been saved by the grace of God alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), through faith alone (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:28; 4:1-16), in Christ alone (John 14:6). But a true faith does not stay alone, it should result in change, fruit, good works, and deeper levels of repentance and hatred of my own sins of selfishness and pride. I am not better than you! I still make mistakes and sin, but the Lord is working on me, conforming me to His character. (Romans 8:28-29; 2 Corinthians 3:16-18) When I do sin, I hate the sin as it is an affront to God, and seek His forgiveness in repentance. (Mark 1:15; 2 Corinthians 7:7-10; Colossians 3:5-16 ) Praise God for His love for sinners (Romans 5:8), shown by the voluntary coming of Christ and His freely laying down His life for us (John 10:18), becoming flesh/human (John 1:1-5; 1:14; Philippians 2:5-8), dying for sins of people from all nations, tribes, and cultures (Revelation 5:9), on the cross, in history, rising from the dead (Romans 10:9-10; Matthew 28, Mark 16:1-8; Luke 24; John 20-21; 1 Corinthians chapter 15). His resurrection from the dead proved that Jesus is the Messiah, the eternal Son of God, the word of God from eternity past; and that He was all the gospels say He was and that He is truth and the life and the way to salvation. (John 14:6)
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27 Responses to Tertullian (~200): Children should not be baptized until they can ask for salvation themselves

  1. Here’s a post on Tertullian regarding infant baptism which exposes the dishonesty of certain Calvinists such as Ken Temple who misuse this church writer in their crusade against the early and widespread practice of infant water baptism: https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2022/03/25/tertullian-of-carthage-on-infant-baptism/

    Ironically for these Calvinists, they fail to address the fact that there are other Calvinists such as the late R.C. Sproul and Ken’s buddy Anthony Rogers, including John Calvin, himself as well as Martin Luther and Lutherans in general, who all affirm and defend the BIBLICAL basis for baptizing infants!

    This same Calvinist will reject Tertullian and early church writers when they affirm doctrines which ken disagrees with, such as the belief that water baptism regenerate something which even Tertullian affirmed!

    The dishonesty of these particular Calvinists never ceases to amaze me. they are truly disgusting the way they handle Scripture and the early fathers.

    • Ken Temple says:

      It is not dishonest to report on the fact that Tertullian viewed believer’s baptism over infant baptism. Everyone knows that Reformed Baptists disagree on this issue with Paedo-baptists (Presbyterians, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists). Every one knows about Calvin’s view, R. C. Sproul, and my friend Anthony Rogers and Martin Luther’s view and also modern Lutherans like Jordan Cooper. They are my brothers in Christ in the gospel; whereas you Sam, are the one who has now left the gospel by rejecting God’s power grace in making dead sinner’s alive and also rejecting Sola Fide (Justification by Faith Alone) and rejecting God’s Word as the only infallible rule of faith. You are adding Mary to your prayers, an act of idolatry! You are also disqualified because of your constant sinful anger, reviling spirit, abusive language, insults and cursing and dirty language, bullying techniques, manipulations, vengeful spirit (which is the spirit of Islam).

      Roman Catholics and other so called older traditional churches that claim to be Apostolic also reject some things and accept other things by Tertullian. So you are inconsistent to not mention all that.

      You are disqualified and have made a shameful shame of internet apologetics to Muslims, because your sinful behavior makes Muslims mock and blaspheme the Holy Spirit – they don’t see any fruit in your life.

      You have head knowledge of Bible verses and too much knowledge of the Quran and Ahadith – which is maybe why you are so vengeful and spiteful and pugnacious.

      I Timothy 3 is clear – “not pugnacious” – a minister is not suppossed to be always fighting. That is all you are – a angry, spiteful, vengeful, pugnacious reviler / verbal abuser.

      Verbal abusers will not inherit the kingdom of God. I Cor. 6:9-11

      James 3
      With the tongue you curse men who are created in the image of God.

      I told you a long ago privately by email that you had good content when you stick to content and texts; but your personal interaction is terrible and ugly and sinful!

      I emailed you privately and you turned it around into attacking me.

      I called into your show and sincerely told you that I do really pray for you (and still do), but you hung up on me because you cannot handle the truth.

      It is you are the coward and sissy because you hung on me.

  2. you stupid spiritual whore. Email me at samshmn@yahoo.com so we can go live and I bury you for all to see, you filth.

    • Ken Temple says:

      why? you hung on me last time, so what makes you think you won’t be unjust again?

      It is you who was the sissy and coward – you cannot handle listening to someone else without doing your over the top macho-ism and bravado and manipulations.

      You are unjust and full of sin. You have a spirit of vengeance, reviling, pugnaciousness, sinful anger which is the spirit of Islam. You spent too much time soaking in those filthy Hadith rather than the Word of God.

    • Ken Temple says:

      You have never muzzled or buried anybody. Your angry character destroys your credibility.

    • Ken Temple says:

      Sam Shamoun:
      Your deep character and spirit is the spirit of revenge, just like the root of Islam and Islam’s god, Allah.
      Since you hung on me, when I out of good faith called you into show (after you pestered me 3 or 4 times all day), and also since 2012 I have been emailing you privately with my brotherly concerns, you lost your chance, because it is you who is the coward and sissy, since it is you who would not face me.

      As you said to Anthony, “stay in your lane”. I admit I am not a fast talker or debater, so I will continue to confront you and your sin in the ways that I do. Your behavior in debates is disgusting and sinful anyway, talking over people and using bullying tactics, Your character is sinful.

      either the tree is good or the tree is bad.
      Your mouth speaks out of what fills your heart. You will render judgement for those idle words and cursing and nasty talk on the day of judgement – Matthew 12:33-37

      revilers / slanderers / verbal abusive / railers will not inherit the kingdom of God. I Cor. 6:10

    • Ken Temple says:

      Your prayers to Mary don’t help you control your anger nor your tongue or manipulations, etc. Why should anyone trust you, since you act that way?

    • Ken Temple says:

      But I really do also sincerely keep praying for you.
      2 Tim. 2:24-26

      Ezekiel 36:26-27

    • thad333 says:

      The usual aggressive, godless, unchristian – newly converted to Roman Catholicism – Sam at his worst!! I’ve been offered to come on this unsaved person’s site, where he said he’d crush and destroy me. When I got on, it was insult after threat after abuse.
      The general feeling in a large part of the Christian community is that Sam is demon-possessed. We know, from the Bible, that even Satan can quote Scripture – which he did, when he tempted Jesus in the desert/wilderness.
      Shamoun abuses Christians, both male and female. He has slandered his wife on video.

      • Ken Temple says:

        Praise God for you thad333 – finally some others are coming out and rebuking Shamoun.
        Thank you!

      • Ken Temple says:

        I won’t go as far as saying that Shamoun is “demon-possessed”. He has a lot of good articles on Islam when they are free from his anger and reviling and cursing, etc. He did a pretty good job recently against 3 Shia Muslims (although he always has to put that extra verbal insulting flares at the end) He got them to admit that Shia Islam allows men to take women as captives in war and as sex-slaves. Shamoun also did a pretty good job talking to a lady named Talitha recently, who has recently come back to Christ after being a Muslima for a while. ( I have not finished listening to that, but Shamoun shows a heart there.)

      • thad333 says:

        I agree, Ken. He has sporadic moments of ‘spiritual clarity.’
        He DOES turn out decent articles. Many of his issues appear to be, when he gets involved with debates and challenges involving other people. Anyone, who challenges his RC faith, doesn’t stand a chance. 1 Peter 3:15 reminds us of the need to defend/clarify our Christian position with ‘gentleness’ and ‘respect.’
        Why do SO many people, in the Christian and non-Christian arena now laugh at him, condemn him, remind him of his behaviour, use his ‘Christian’ behaviour against Christians?
        Sadly, more and more are questioning his spiritual state.

      • Ken Temple says:

        Good; he even said in one of his videos that 1 Peter 3:15 means a Muslim must come humbly first before me and ask questions out of sincerity, whereas the context is exactly the opposite – people ask questions about the hope within you AFTER they see your character in the midst of suffering and trials and persecutions. He turned 1 Peter 3:15 on its head.

      • thad333 says:

        Regarding 1 Peter 3:15…perhaps, you can see WHY many people see him as demon-possessed…when he misuses and abuses Scripture.
        We see EXACTLY the same scenario in the New Testament, when Satan misapplied and manipulated Scripture to tempt Jesus in the wilderness/desert.
        Many people see the parallel and similar behaviour, where Satan required Jesus’ worship…in the same way that Sam demands a Muslim’s ‘worship.’ Effectively, Sam is saying to a Muslim…’I am the Way, the Truth and the Life…’

      • Ken Temple says:

        In a sense, yes; he has made himself into an idol and demands respect and humility from the outset; he doesn’t realize his blindspot; although at times he admits that he “has many problems and issues” and “don’t make me into an idol, or hero” – but he has the ability to say the right words without actually applying them to his heart attitude.

      • thad333 says:

        Sam is a manipulator. It’s as if I were to beat up my wife and claim that it’s due to my alcohol and drug problems. Don’t blame me, but see me as a victim, who’s struggling with my personal issues.
        As long as I struggle and TALK about my issues, then I have no control and I want people to make excuses for me. Sam claims that he doesn’t want to be looked up to, seen as an idol or a pastor or religious leader, but continues to behave in exactly the same way, with no changes, rejecting offers of help from Christians, teachings and advice from Scripture and support from counselling. His behaviour has become worse, since his marriage broke up…not BECAUSE of this, as he’s had a real anger, aggression issue (among other things), where his wife had to have a restraining order placed against him. For Sam, it’s ALWAYS someone (or something) else’s fault, problem, issues, misunderstanding, misinterpretation, bias… and the list goes on, Ken. Sam doesn’t want to change, DESPITE offers of help or support. He continues to wrest Scripture from its context, he deliberately misapplies God’s Word, he’s guilty of eisegesis and narcigesis (reading himself into Scripture (where he becomes the ‘go to’ person, or the mediator to God for Muslims).
        He creates a terrible example for detractors of Christianity.
        Do you understand Sam and his position differently?

      • Ken Temple says:

        Sam Shamoun is a manipulator – I totally agree.

        Normal people can see through his issues. (especially other married folks and men with experience in pastoral ministry and marriage counseling.) If he was loving his wife like Christ love the Church (Eph. 5), she would not have gone looking for another man to fill that void. ( I am not excusing her adultery) There are always 2 sides in the counseling situation. If he was always treating her like the way he treats everybody else who tries to reason with him, or approach him, or disagree with him, or challenge him; then it is obvious what happened. She got tired of his anger and manipulations and insulting and argumentative spirit. I feel sorry for him, for he does not seem to recognize this part of his problem.
        Lord willing, I will comment on other stuff later.

      • Ken Temple says:

        A lot of those videos are made by Muslims and Anti-Trinitarians. (But it still shows a bad witness to unbelievers.) Not many have been made by good sound people – only (the only one I know of) James White has spoken openly. Anthony Rogers did a little recently.

      • thad333 says:

        And that’s one of the major problems…many Muslims and anti-Trinitarians use Sam’s outbursts to manipulate – to the world – that this is the TRUE face of Trinitarian Christianity. In Islam, they make a big deal about Djinns (demons); many use Sam to ‘prove’ that this is what happens when a Muslim becomes an apostate, becomes a Trinitarian and regards Isa (Jesus) as God. They have the proof, as they regard it, that this is a Christian in action. Muslims fear Djinns, and many Muslims won’t join a Pentecostal/Charismatic church BECAUSE of the writhing and barking that goes on in these types of churches. They see this as demonic manifestations. Sam represents this behaviour to those Islamic sites that choose to discredit Christianity. Sam plays into their hands, and seems to be unwilling to change. He produces more heat than light for many people. Anti-Christians have a field day with his videos, when he swears at women, fellow Christians, threatens people…

      • Ken Temple says:

        Yes, I totally agree. Shamoun brings shame on the message of Christianity because of his angry sinful behavior and pugnaciousness, reviling, verbal abuse and macho-man manipulation tactics. He is gifted in speech and speed and debate argumentation, so that it makes it worse because his natural gifts and strengths are twisted into something bad.

  3. thad333 says:

    HI Ken. I’ve been following Sam for some years. He’s become worse. Even his ‘friends’ e.g. David Wood has had a word with him. James White has several videos about his behaviour. It’s an open secret that Sam has, genuinely, lost the plot.
    You’re doing a great job here, Ken. Keep on, keeping on

    • Ken Temple says:

      Yes, James White has made several videos and an open letter to him. David Wood has distanced himself but does not say anything publicly, Shamoun admitted this.
      But there needs to be more rebuke.

      When Shamoun had RC Robert Sungenis on, and he gave a RC view of why justification by faith alone is wrong; – many of the other Evangelical Protestants wrote in chat and com-boxes that they were thrown off and confused and struggling.

      Who is one of his channel moderators who goes by “Protestant believer” ?

      Amazing that he does see the contradictions to his own faith claim.

      • thad333 says:

        Who is one of his channel moderators who goes by “Protestant believer”?
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljsIepyhuFI Chris Claus, who is a BIG supporter of Sam’s

      • Ken Temple says:

        Thanks! What kind of Protestant is he? since Shamoun has repudiated Sola Fide and had Robert Sungenis on to promote the RC view vs. Sola Fide

      • thad333 says:

        He is VERY hooked into Sam. Is he a Calvinist…the jury is still out. He sides with Sam on many issues. He’s a Protestant in name only…very much like many ‘professing’ Christians aren’t REAL Christians, but go to church and sing hymns.

      • Ken Temple says:

        I doubt he (“Protestant Believer” = Chris Claus) is a Calvinist (in my opinion from what I have seen); all the channel supporters seem to have a hatred toward Reformed theology. I could be wrong; but there are other more basic principles – such as Sola Fide (Justification by Faith alone) (But true faith does not stay alone) – Shamoun’s condemnation of that doctrine (and approval of Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox and others (Coptic and Assyrian Church of the East) would seem to me to cause anyone who calls himself a Protestant to leave his channel as a supporter. He has said he does not really know if the Assyrian church of the East is Nestorian or not, which is weird, if he is a missionary-minister and approved by that church, that he doesn’t know the details of their doctrine. I seriously doubt the priest there knows about all of Shamoun’s anger and reviling and pugnaciousness and over the top macho-ism and bravado and manipulations on his channel.

        One of the worst things I saw was all the Evangelicals’ comments when Robert Sungenis taught was all the confusion and doubt that they expressed. They said things like, “Wow, I am confused now” or other comments that show they were thrown off by Sungenis’ teaching against Sola Fide.

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