Refuting Trent Horn’s “rebuttal” of “American Gospel”

Trent Horn attempted to rebut the American Gospel presentation of Roman Catholic system of salvation, but he did not really refute anything much. There was one word that they used about purgatory – that we will talk about later in this article.

The first 14 minutes is pure Pelagianism (or maybe we could label it “Semi-Pelagianism” – “we are able to live a life of radical holiness” Assumes infant baptism gives that kind of power. Yet “poorly catechized” points to learning & discipleship, not inherent power in getting wet with right words said over the infant. A child needs to learn about Christ and sin and repentance and faith. Only after conversion (repentance and faith) does a person have the power to live a sanctified life. Growing in holiness – the process of sanctification comes after justification. We are justified by faith alone (Romans 1:17; 3:28; 4:1-16; 5:1; Galatians 1:6-9; 2:16; the gospel of John, 5:24; 3:16; 11:25; 20:30-31; Ephesians 2:1-9; Philippians 3:9; Acts 16:31; but true faith does not stay alone, it results in good works, fruit, change, growth, deeper levels of repentance. (James 2:14-26; Ephesians 2:10; 4:17-25; 1 Thessalonians 4:1-8; Romans chapters 6, 7, 8)

I watched Trent Horn’s rebuttal 3 times, & yet he did not refute the accuracy of their analysis of R. Catholic plan of salvation. At around minute 24:30 Trent says “Mike is right!” (Mike Gendron about baptism), about @ minute 25:14 – “right!” about mortal sin, and around 27:28 – right! about confession to priest to get salvation back. Three times Trent Horn said that the American gospel was right about Roman Catholicism! The time stamps are estimates, so look around those points.

The only good point the Trent Horn made, was the word they used “possibly” about after time in purgatory. The American gospel folks said the person in purgatory will “possibly” someday come out and go to heaven. But Roman Catholic doctrine says those that go to purgatory will for sure eventually come out and go to heaven. But the problem is that for centuries, R. Catholicism taught you spend years or decades or centuries or 300 or 1000 years or 900 years in purgatory. How can anyone know he will eventually be saved? The threat of the fires of purgatory seem like the threat of hell for centuries; especially the manipulation tactics that Johann Tetzel was doing to raise money for St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome. (“when a coin in the coffer rings, a soul from purgatory springs”) . This is what animated Martin Luther in 1517. Roman Catholicism needs to clarify about the fact that many taught for centuries that purgatory could be decades or centuries or even millennia suffering in the fires of purgatory. Purgatory and indulgences was taught from the beginning of the Crusades (1095) until after Trent (1545-1563), and into the years after Trent. How long until they stopped teaching on time in purgatory? A Roman Catholic named Allan Ruhl told me that Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (1542-1621) taught time, even centuries in purgatory. In the book on Purgatory by Rev. F. X. Schoope, a Jesuit priest, there are examples of people in purgatory for many years. That book has the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur stamps of approval on them from the Roman Catholic Church as official. (year 1893) Seems that they were teaching this about time and centuries in purgatory into the late 1800s. (you can google it and find out about it)

How long did the Roman Catholic Church teach this stuff about time in purgatory, and when did it end?

See Gavin Ortlund’s videos on Purgatory and Indulgences for more examples of years in Purgatory. And see other debates on Purgatory of Dr. White vs. Peter Stravinstas, Tim Staples, and Robert Sungenis. Side bar category: “Purgatory”.

That issue of indulgences and time in purgatory is what led Martin Luther in 1517 to question the RCC doctrines.

So, Trent Horn says three times that the American Gospel analysis of Roman Catholicism is right! Again – “Mike is right!” or “right!” 24:30 (on baptism); 25:14 (on mortal sin); 27:28 (on confession to a priest to get back salvation) .

Trent kept saying “it is “not faith plus works” or “it is not faith & sacraments” & yet then proceeded to agree that it is baptism & works / sacraments = making sure you don’t commit mortal sins, keep yourself in charity; act of will – saying we are able to obey God & live a life of radical holiness.

Trent Horn mentioned Charles Stanley’s “easy-believe-ism”. I was there personally at First Baptist Church of Atlanta for years – from 1979-1992. Dr. Charles Stanley did not seem to teach that until his son Andy convinced him of that very bad theology. “Free-grace theology” (easy believe-ism) was soundly refuted by John MacArthur in “Faith Works: The Gospel according to the Apostles”. (vs. Zane Hodges, the professor who influenced Andy Stanley, & Andy wrote a lot of Charles’ book on “Eternal Security” for him, especially that section. I actually confronted Andy Stanley on this issue around 1988-1990. (? if I remember correctly) I confronted him because I read two of Zane Hodges books (“The gospel Under Siege” and “Grace in Eclipse”) and found them to be very problematic according to Scripture and what I had already been taught by his father, Dr. Charles Stanley. The forward to “Grace in Eclipse” did not sound like the Dr. Stanley that I knew and had heard for years, being a regular member. I met Andy at a lunch meeting and Andy admitted to me that he actually wrote the forward to “Grace in Eclipse”, and that his dad just read it and agreed and signed it as from him. But deep down, in my opinion, that did not reflect what Dr. Stanley had been teaching for years. I also learned that Andy wrote most of the book, “Eternal Security”. Sometimes after that point, Dr. Stanley was unclear on the issue about someone who constantly practices deliberate sin without any conviction or struggle. By the way, look at where Andy Stanley is today – his sermon on “When Gracie met Truthy”; his recent affirmation of homosexuality and affirming the LGBTQ paradigm; “unhitching from the OT”, “don’t say ‘the Bible says”; “the Bible is not the foundation of our faith”, etc. In my opinion, Andy has drifted outside of Biblical Christianity and is a dangerous false teacher. Andy Stanley needs to repent. It all started with his embracing the easy-believe-ism of Zane Hodges.

Trent Horn admitted that Roman Catholics have other secondary mediators (like Mary & the saints in heaven). He also basically admitted that sacraments keep you on the path to final salvation. Prayers to Mary and the saints is a massive violation of 1 Timothy 2:5, as Christ is the only mediator between God and man. Roman Catholicism, by depending on prayers to Mary, and penance and the Eucharist, etc. is a system of “baptism & faith & works & sacraments”.

About Mark 10 & the rich young ruler- the rich young ruler said, “from my youth I have kept all these” (v. 19) – the guy was self – deceived since Jesus refuted that in Matthew 5:27-30 (root of murder & root of adultery). His god was his money – violation of 2nd commandment. Yes, Jesus confronts the rich and dangers of wealth, but the root of that is showing the reason why the guy did not even recognize his own sin of idolatry and pride and thinking that he kept all the commandments from his youth.

Someone in Twitter wrote that many RCs are “poorly catechized” (the word comes from Luke 1:4 – “that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught” – “what you have been taught” – κατηχήθης  – where we get “catechesis” from – that word comes from that Greek word – “to teach orally”. Luke wrote it down, so that Theophilus and now us, can have those things written down so that we can read and be certain of the events and truths of the life of Jesus and the Gospel message. The writing gives us assurance when we read.

“poorly catechized” = demonstrates that a child needs to learn things-about sin, Christ, repentance, faith. “let them learn as they grow” & THEN get baptized. (paraphrase from Tertullian On Baptism, 18 “Let them come, then, while they are growing up; let them come while they are learning”

“Let them come, then, while they are growing up; let them come while they are learning, while they are learning whither to come; let them become Christians when they have become able to know Christ.” Tertullian, On Baptism, 18

At the end, Trent Horn says, “The Catholic gospel is the gospel” – “repent, receive Christ in baptism, and remain in Christ until death”.

A person receives Christ by repentance and faith in Christ and His atonement & resurrection (John 1:12-13; Romans 3:21-26; Romans chapters 1-5; 10:9-10), not by water baptism (1 Cor. 1:13-17) The power to live a holy life in Romans 6 assumes the person has understood first about sin (Romans 1-3, and faith in Christ (chapters 4-5) – that faith in Christ justifies, not by good works. (Romans 3:28; 4:1-16; 5:1)

“Remain in Christ until death” = don’t commit moral sin and partake of the sacraments – penance, confession to a priest, Eucharist (eat My flesh and drink My blood), pray to Mary and the saints for extra help and grace; do works of charity; “you are able to live a life of radical holiness” – this is also a system of faith plus works – the sacramental system is a system of works added onto faith that is required for justification, since you don’t think justification is a once for all event in the life of a believer (the point of conversion, the point of repentance and faith). Very clearly contradicts Romans 4:1-6 and 5:1, and the whole book of Galatians, the gospel of John, Ephesians, Philippians, 1 Peter, and the rest of the NT. Trent Horn denied Roman Catholicism is “faith plus works”, but demonstrated by his defense of the RC system that it is “faith plus works”. All Roman Catholics counter the doctrine of justification by faith alone with James 2:24, which in Trent’s system is the “plus works” of “faith plus works”. Rome interprets James 2:24 wrongly, wrenching it from its context of 2:14-26. James is clearly talking about the evidence of true faith, which all Protestants agree with – that the good works of Abraham willing to sacrifice his son in Genesis 22, is the proof of his faith back in Genesis 15:6. (see James 2:14-26)

Again, we are justified by faith alone (Romans 1:17; 3:28; 4:1-16; 5:1; Galatians 1:6-9; 2:16; the gospel of John, 5:24; 3:16; 11:25; 20:30-31; Ephesians 2:1-9; Philippians 3:9; Acts 16:31; but true faith does not stay alone, it results in good works, fruit, change, growth, deeper levels of repentance. (James 2:14-26; Ephesians 2:10; 4:17-25; 1 Thessalonians 4:1-8; Romans chapters 6, 7, 8)

James taught in James chapter 2, verses 14-26, that good works are the result and vindicate and prove that someone has true faith. Just words (“I believe in Christ”, or “I have faith”) are not enough that real faith is there. The demons believe that God is one and true and yet shudder. (James 2:19) Demonic faith is not trusting faith that has a commitment to Christ. Real faith is living and active and results in good works. The meaning of “justify” in James 2:24 is the same as in Matthew 11:19 and Luke 7:35 and 1 Timothy 3:16 – in the sense of “prove” or “vindicate” or “show to be true”. The context makes it clear.

Roman Catholics bring up James 2:24 and that the phrase is there “not by faith alone’.

Is it a Contraction to Galatians 2:16, Romans 3:28, Romans 4:1-8, Phil. 3:9; John 5:24, John 3:16, etc. ?

The Reformation slogan was “Sola Fide” (Martin Luther, John Calvin):  “We are justified by faith alone.”

Roman Catholics said, “No, we are justified by faith and works.”  The Roman Catholic Church cites James 2:24, “not by faith alone”.

Keys to interpreting James 2:14-26 properly:

1.  one should not isolate verse 24 and the phrase, “not by faith alone” all by itself because it ignores the context of this paragraph, the book of James, and the rest of the NT.

2.  In context, in James 2:14, emphasis is on a person “saying”, “claiming” that they have faith.  “Can that kind of faith save him?” .

3.  James 2:21  What is he alluding to here?  Answer:  Genesis 22

4.  James 2:23  What is he quoting here?  Answer:  Genesis 15:6.  This is what Paul quotes in Galatians 3:6 and Romans 4:3

5.  Monotheism is not enough to save.  James 2:19.  The demons also believe that God is one.  In Genesis 15:1-6, Abraham’s faith was not just in “one God”; but his faith was in the one true God and His promise to send someone from his own body to be “the seed” who would destroy Satan (Genesis 3:15) and be a blessing to all nations. Genesis 12:3, 18:18, 22:18.  (see Galatians 3:16; and Genesis 26:4-5)

6.  Key:  The order of events in the life of Abraham:  Faith came first, then obedience.  Genesis 12:4 (Hebrews 11:8), Genesis 15:6; then Genesis 22 (good works, obedience).

7.  The word “justified” in James 2:21 and 2:24, based on how it is used in context,  “justified” has a different meaning than in Galatians and Romans.  Here is means, “proved right”, “vindicated”, “confirmed”, “tested and approved”.  In Romans and Galatians and James 2:23, because he is quoting Genesis 15:6, which is also quoted in Romans 4 and Galatians 3; it means “declared righteous” or “imputed or reckoned righteous”, but in verses 21 and 24, it means “proven to be justified”.  The same word is used this way in Matthew 11:19, “wisdom is proved right by her deeds”  NIV:  “Wisdom is proved right by her actions”.   Luke 7:35 “Wisdom is vindicated by all her children”.  NIV:  “Wisdom is proved right by her children.”

–  this is also confirmed by “you see” in verse 2 and “you see” in verse 24.  Good works are things we see.  The evidence of a truly saved person is change, repentance, sorrow over sin, confession, good works, fruits.  Galatians 5:19-22.  fruit = evidence.  Deeds of the flesh = evidence of practices of those who do not have the Holy Spirit.

8.  Interpret in the light of other Scriptures:  Romans 1:16-17, 3:9-28, 4:1-8, 5:1-11, Galatians 1:8-9, 2:16-21, Galatians chapter 3, Philippians 3:9

9.  Interpret according to theological consistency:  God has one mind and no contradictions in His mind, or His word, therefore there are no contradictions in the Bible.

10.  So, the Bible teaches that we are justified by faith alone, but that faith is such a kind of faith so as not to stay alone; it results in good works, obedience, a heart of humility, repentance, changes, good fruits, new attitudes, love for people, hunger for God and His word, love for the church, hatred for sin; confession, and a godly sorrow when a true believer does sin.

11.  True faith is a living, active faith.  James 2:26, Galatians 5:6  “faith working through love”.  God has “poured His love first into believer’s heart through the Holy Spirit”. Romans 5:5; We love because He first loved us” – 1 John 4:10-19. We are able to love, because He first loved us. There is not contradiction between Paul in Galatians and Romans and James in 2:14-26.